Pelosi - $15000 Socialist insurance policy or 5 years in prison

[StinkerBell]

Please indicate where I used the word "shoot".

Well, in your name...duh! 



I just couldn't help myself.

[Pox Eclipse]

I have very serious issues with taxation without representation.  I am clearly not being heard by my "representatives". 

So if your representatives don't vote your position on every issue, they are not representing you?  You need to take a refresher course on how representative democracy works.

Sometimes you're the windshield. Sometimes you're the bug.  That's the way it is supposed to work.

[muldoon]

But the facts behind the issue remain what they are.  The united states is broke.  fdic is bankrupt now, social security is bankrupt now, not some future date - right now.  By far the largest expense the government has today is health care.  Last month we had the treasury secretary in front of congress telling congress the most important issue in the united states is health care, not the credit crises, not the dollar, not the things one would expect the treasury secretary to speak about - this not about doing the right thing for people.  It is about saving money by limiting expenses in health care.  I don't care how they spin this that is the bottom line.  Anyone who thinks healthcare will improve by giving it to the government and making all doctors government employees is delusional. 

to carry on what I said yesterday. 

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theworldnewser/2009/12/president-obama-federal-government-will-go-bankrupt-if-health-care-costs-are-not-reigned-in.html

ABC's Karen Travers reports from Washington:

President Obama told ABC News' Charles Gibson in an interview that if Congress does not pass health care legislation that will bring down costs, the federal government "will go bankrupt."

The president laid out a dire scenario of what will happen if his health care reform effort fails.

Gibson Obama "If we don't pass it, here's the guarantee....your premiums will go up, your employers are going to load up more costs on you," he said. "Potentially they're going to drop your coverage, because they just can't afford an increase of 25 percent, 30 percent in terms of the costs of providing health care to employees each and every year. "

more at article. 

folks this is a tax and nothing else.  If they raise taxes right now the populace would revolt at the mention of it.  Combine this tax with reducing quality and affordability of care and you lower costs to the government and more money to their coffers.  That is all this is about. 

I agree with NM_Shooter above about taxation without representation.  Were not at the "give em lead" state at my house, but I understand the sentiment nonetheless. 

Pox - no, I do not expect my reps to vote my position.  I do expect them to vote their constituents that voted them in.  A congressional approval level of 18% - EIGHTTEEN percent should tell you everything you need to know about how represented Americans feel right now. 

[NM_Shooter]

Me? Second amendment?  Nah, I don't pay any attention since the locusts ate all my guns.

-f-

[Pox Eclipse]

Pox - no, I do not expect my reps to vote my position.  I do expect them to vote their constituents that voted them in.  A congressional approval level of 18% - EIGHTTEEN percent should tell you everything you need to know about how represented Americans feel right now. 

What it tells us is that Americans don't like Congress as a whole.  But they are surprisingly satisfied with their own Congressman: 52% said they want their own representative re-elected in 2010.  When you see dismal stats like an 18% approval rating, it reflects frustration with the other guy's congressman.  Most Americans are quite satisfied with their own guy.

[muldoon]

not me. 

I remember calling Hutchisons office during the TARP fiasco of late 2008, and sitting on hold.  I spoke with her staffer, who when I asked if they were busy said the calls were running 50/50.  I was surprised, until he said 50% no, 50% hell no.  Then she voted for it.  Now she's running for governor.   I think they are all traitors and criminals of the highest order.  We found out later that the official numbers were 300 to 1 against - and still they voted for it.  I have no love of  "my congress critters". 

That is the definition of taxation without representation.  Today Obama had the nerve to drop a "if we dont pass the healthcare bill the federal government will go bankrupt" line.  More fear and bull-must-sensor-myself.  Maybe you should not have given a trillion to the bankers like the people said. 

People, myself included are fed up with the criminals, the fraud, the lies, the treason that is occurring.  We definitely feel taxed but not represented and are abrasive about the subject.

This health care, the fees and taxes start immediately, but the benefits and actual coverage does not start until 2013.   This is nothing but  a tax.  And one that is not welcome strictly because the representation behind the tax is so lacking. 

- The move to make health benefits taxable is a punch in the stomach.  not just taxable but counting it as income..  Everyone who has health care of any kind is likely to be bumped up to another tax bracket because of it.  And for what?  So that in 4 years we get screwed again? 

I need to stop, I know from past experience that a night of bourbon and posting here just gets me in trouble.  I am not looking to debate or argue with the fine folks here at CP, I am just frustrated with where this country is going. 

good night. 

[rick91351]

Wow 52% Pox that is a landslide.  Election is still a few days off.    They have a long time to make us all warm and fuzzy.

[glenn kangiser]

I agree with muldoon.  Sassy contacted as many congress critters and others as she could regardng the bailout.  Nearly all said they would vote against it.  The nearly all lied and went against their constituents wishes due to arm twisting, threat of martial law and some because they were protecting their own investments.

Nobody I know is satisfied with them.

[StinkerBell]

The problem is the Representatives represent their party and not the people who voted them in.
IMO, the Republicans think this next election is going to be easy, and it might. But if they don't clean house and get their act together I really think a third party will divide the Republicans and wound the democrats.  At this point on a personaly level I have had it with both parties and desire a third party.

[NM_Shooter]

Me too Stink!  Ditto Mudoon!

I had a long drive back from a work visit last night and was trying to think about what it is that most bothers me about all this.

1)  First of all, I have good health insurance and my health care still sucks.  The major problem is not insurance.  This bill being promoted by the left is nothing more than a whitewash to be able to quantify something tangible that they "did".  Whether or not it is effective is of no concern to them, since they don't fall under the "care" of this bill.

2)  If some single payer / govt option does go through, you can bet your butt that all of our employers will drop insurance coverage on us like a hot potato given the first chance.  Those of us who are married get hit by the marriage penalty, and I'd bet the farm that my employer is not going to increase my wages to compensate me.  So I'm out benefits, and I have to pay extra for reduced service.

3)  Our government can't manage ANYTHING without screwing it up.  Look no further than the post office for direct proof of this.  My local branch that serves 8000 people has a front service desk that has room for three workers.... here we are 10 days before Christmas, and they are running only one person to deal with all the incoming mail.  WTH???  We need more private industry that is run for profit and less hourly government paid workers who don't care how much business they get.

4)  I'm tired of having my taxes go up, while my "benefits" go down.  We encourage poverty, rather than encourage education and smart lifestyle choices.  The left feeds off of this voter base.  The motto of the left seems to be to keep them uneducated, dependent, and breeding. 

BTW... I would be all for a smart, well designed program that provides education benefits for the poor.  Let them have welfare and child daycare / support, but put their butts in trade school or community college or whatever under a fixed duration assistance program.  Make grades or you are done.  Tax me for that and I'll support it.  I don't mind "giving a man a fish".... Once.

[Pox Eclipse]

2)  If some single payer / govt option does go through, you can bet your butt that all of our employers will drop insurance coverage on us like a hot potato given the first chance. 

This contradicts the reason employers offer any health benefits at all; to attract and retain the best employees.  They are not offering insurance out of the goodness of their hearts; it is in their economic interest to do so. 

If the public option is the nightmare its opponents are predicting (long waits, rationing, death panels), any employer who stops offering private insurance will soon find himself with cubicles full of everybody else's rejects.

Employers will not place themselves in a competitive disadvantage by dropping health insurance benefits. 

[rwanders]

2)  If some single payer / govt option does go through, you can bet your butt that all of our employers will drop insurance coverage on us like a hot potato given the first chance.

This contradicts the reason employers offer any health benefits at all; to attract and retain the best employees.  They are not offering insurance out of the goodness of their hearts; it is in their economic interest to do so.  

If the public option is the nightmare its opponents are predicting (long waits, rationing, death panels), any employer who stops offering private insurance will soon find himself with cubicles full of everybody else's rejects.

Employers will not place themselves in a competitive disadvantage by dropping health insurance benefits.  

You may be right----but, the large employer I retired from, and many others, does require you to sign up for Medicare including Part D (drug) at age 65. At that point, your retiree medical policy becomes "secondary" to Medicare. Unfortunately, here in Anchorage, only 11 out of over 700 primary care doctors (mine is not one of them)will accept Medicare and since I cannot submit my bills to Medicare, I also cannot submit them to my retiree health plan----isn't that special!  I must, however, pay my medicare premiums plus my retiree premiums just in case I ever find a doctor who will accept medicare reimbursements-----I am pretty sure many others will have similar experiences. Welcome to the future of ObamaCare. At this point, I must pay 100% of my doctors bills myself----all OCare will do for me is raise my premiums 

[RainDog]

 Abandon ship.

Politico: House Dems already starting to run from ObamaCare

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0110/31693.html

And, " Many Democrats, as always, are caught in their insular liberal information loop. They think the polls are bad simply because the economy is bad. They tell each other health care is unpopular because the people aren't sophisticated enough to understand it. Some believe they can still pass health care even if their candidate, Martha Coakley, loses the Senate race in Massachusetts on Tuesday.

That, of course, would be political suicide. It would be the act of a party so arrogant, elitist and contemptuous of popular wisdom that it would not deserve to govern. Marie Antoinette would applaud, but voters would rage."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/19/opinion/19brooks.html

Here we've got one of America's chief apologists for the "educated class" warning Dems that they deserve to burn if they decide to ignore the will of the hoi polloi for their own good.

[NM_Shooter]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/19/opinion/19brooks.html

Here we've got one of America's chief apologists for the "educated class" warning Dems that they deserve to burn if they decide to ignore the will of the hoi polloi for their own good.

I got to this paragraph before I could not stand to read any more :

"In many ways, Barack Obama has lived up to his promise. He has created a thoughtful, pragmatic administration marked by a culture of honest and vigorous debate."  After reading that I felt like I needed another shower.

What concerns me most is that I think that our political system is critically underdamped and unstable.  I fear that we are going to swing wildly between red and blue endpoints.  How do we get our elected officials to work in a bipartisan way with the best of our country in mind?  I believe that instead of adding new political parties perhaps we should figure out a way to eliminate all of them.

[glenn kangiser]

The illegal tyrannical presidential signing orders have really eliminated the need for any other parties.   Why do so many continue to pretend that the system still works as it was created by the founding fathers?  The bantering between the fake 2 parties is just a distraction.  Those in office are running their own agenda.

[StinkerBell]

Well I read today that the POTUS is planning on moving the White House to Kansas to keep one of his campaign promises.

[RainDog]

Another:

Analysis: Brown's win changes political narrative for 2010

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/01/20/analysis.massachusetts.election/index.html?eref=rss_topstories&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+Top+Stories%29&utm_content=My+Yahoo

I'm very curious to see whether the health care bill gets pushed through, contrary to public opinion, before Brown gets seated or not.

[OlJarhead]

Another:

Analysis: Brown's win changes political narrative for 2010

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/01/20/analysis.massachusetts.election/index.html?eref=rss_topstories&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+Top+Stories%29&utm_content=My+Yahoo

I'm very curious to see whether the health care bill gets pushed through, contrary to public opinion, before Brown gets seated or not.

Brown is a progressive -- he might actually vote for Health Care so it won't likely matter.

He voted for Stimulus Ver 2.0 and from what I've heard him say he's NOT a small government, less spending, less taxes type -- folks mislead themselves to think otherwise.

Now, all is not lost, but expect to see him chumming with other progressives and voting their big government ideas.

[RainDog]

 Yeah, I saw the way he voted on the Senate jobs bill couple days back. Interesting.

"As soon as the vote was called, he strode quickly into the well and interrupted the clerk as he read the roll.

"Yes," Brown said quietly, and then, having become Reid's first vote, he rushed out of the room before Republican colleagues   arrived. He stepped into the hallway, then waited for reporters to assemble around him.

"I'm not from around here," he said. "I'm from Massachusetts."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/22/AR2010022204270.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns

[RainDog]

Democrats could bypass GOP on health care bill

"Washington (CNN) -- As a major White House meeting on health care reform approaches this week Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid acknowledged Tuesday that he may use a controversial parliamentary shortcut to bypass GOP opposition and pass a bill."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/02/23/dems.health.care/index.html?eref=rss_topstories&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A%20rss%2Fcnn_topstories%20%28RSS%3A%20Top%20Stories%29

[OlJarhead]

"It's not a perfect bill, but it's certainly a bill that I felt comfortable enough to vote on, because it's the first step in creating jobs," Brown said. "And anytime you can make a small step, it's still a step."

Like I said -- he's not a 'small government' type -- I'd call him a Rhino.

Anyone who thinks government creates jobs isn't a Republican (or at least shouldn't be)...much less a 'Tea party Candidate' but I don't think he was either.

Sadly, people are going to get even more upset when they realize that they voted for the 'same old same old' in Brown....thank god it didn't take long to get that out though.

Now, let us pray we can find someone with a little sense in them who might realize that the way to create jobs in this country is to get off the backs of businesses and citizens by CUTTING spending dramatically.

Pipe Dream though.

[RainDog]

Yes, it's from Slate, and yes, it is biased, and yes, it makes a number of unsupported assertions.

But this "Health Summit Cheat Sheet" this "glossary of health reform words, phrases, and slogans" adds up to a good analysis of the current state of play in the health care "reform" negotiations.

And some interesting data, as well...

Health Summit Cheat Sheet

http://www.slate.com/id/2245894/pagenum/all/#p2