New VP

[Squirl]

Nothing is stopping you from doing that now.  Nothing would have stopped you from dumping what you have worked for at anytime in the past 20 years and going on welfare.  My point is that taxes are high and going higher to pay for things that aren't welfare.

[StinkerBell]

Just make sure when you liquidate your assets you bury it in the backyard or under the bed. Welfare will make you ever so often do to the bank and have a bank employee fill out a form with your balance and sometimes the average balance you keep (before working in an ER for a decade I worked as a Bank Teller for a decade). Depending on the state, you can not have a car that is less then 5 years old. SO make sure you place that in a family members name.

Why am I telling you this? I have never done this myself but I have watched many others do it. I have seen people pull out all but 5.00 from their accounts one day and the next day have a bank officer fill out a form. I have  seen people on welfare drive up in a new car, wearing a lot of gold necklaces, recently had their nails manicured pick up their welfare check. What i find sometimes odd is there is no children with them.

I personally worked with a gal in the ER. She was a HUC like me. She had 5 kids, 4 different dad's and collected welfare and worked. We made the same amount of money and she was able to afford to go on many vacations through out the year (we worked a week on week off schedule). I could not help ask her how she could afford it? She would answer that she had to spend it before the end of the month or she would lose her welfare. She would spend her evenings searching the state welfare site to see what other benefits she was ENTITLED to. I was able to afford to go camping with my kids maybe twice a year. She went to Mexico and to Puerto Rico. I think what made me become so bitter is when her oldest child (17) had a child. She then turned around and told the state she would be the day care provider for her grandchild and was able to charge the state and collect money for day care services.

[Sassy]

Just make sure when you liquidate your assets you bury it in the backyard or under the bed. Welfare will make you ever so often do to the bank and have a bank employee fill out a form with your balance and sometimes the average balance you keep (before working in an ER for a decade I worked as a Bank Teller for a decade). Depending on the state, you can not have a car that is less then 5 years old. SO make sure you place that in a family members name.

Why am I telling you this? I have never done this myself but I have watched many others do it. I have seen people pull out all but 5.00 from their accounts one day and the next day have a bank officer fill out a form. I have  seen people on welfare drive up in a new car, wearing a lot of gold necklaces, recently had their nails manicured pick up their welfare check. What i find sometimes odd is there is no children with them.

I personally worked with a gal in the ER. She was a HUC like me. She had 5 kids, 4 different dad's and collected welfare and worked. We made the same amount of money and she was able to afford to go on many vacations through out the year (we worked a week on week off schedule). I could not help ask her how she could afford it? She would answer that she had to spend it before the end of the month or she would lose her welfare. She would spend her evenings searching the state welfare site to see what other benefits she was ENTITLED to. I was able to afford to go camping with my kids maybe twice a year. She went to Mexico and to Puerto Rico. I think what made me become so bitter is when her oldest child (17) had a child. She then turned around and told the state she would be the day care provider for her grandchild and was able to charge the state and collect money for day care services.

It is a shame, isn't it?  As I've said before, while I did receive welfare for 3 yrs when I went back to school to get my nursing & bachelors degree, I worked parttime & was taking care of my young children & going to school full time - took advantage of student loans & grants, didn't get food stamps, though; wasn't getting any child support - this was the only way I could go back to school at the time & since then have paid my share of taxes as well as having worked all my life & paying taxes before then...  I think, if you have to use those types of services, it should be for a short time, as a bridge to get you on your feet & productive in society...   not a lifetime on the dole...  sounds like that person you worked with made a career of milking the system... 

Hey Stink, I worked in a bank for 10 yrs too!  Did teller work for about a year during that time... 

[StinkerBell]

Sometimes I think we are twins separated at birth......


Probably why I feel comfortable and entitled to glenn around.

[glenn kangiser]

I like it, Stink....hurt me.

[Sassy]

Sometimes I think we are twins separated at birth......


Probably why I feel comfortable and entitled to glenn around.

It's good for him!   

[desdawg]

Nothing is stopping you from doing that now.  Nothing would have stopped you from dumping what you have worked for at anytime in the past 20 years and going on welfare.  My point is that taxes are high and going higher to pay for things that aren't welfare.

Yeah there is one thing that stops me from doing that. It's called INTEGRITY. Obama would destroy ambition and drive with his Freebies for deadbeat philosophy. His policy would encourage those who abuse the system. They would say things like it's only 3-4 cents on the dollar so what is the big deal. But we can grow that later. Look at what you are spending over here on this other stuff. At some point someone has to stand on principle.

[Squirl]

Well Desdawg, I seriously disagree with your principles. I believe we should focus on the rich who sit around and do nothing and get kickbacks in insider contracts and defense contracting waste, fraud, and abuse more than we should focus on welfare for the poor.  As you can see by some of the posts, like Sassy, it has helped people in need.  Stories like that make me proud to pay in and help.  The amount of corporate welfare for the rich outrages me so much more than welfare for the poor. And the point of my post is it takes more from our taxes and society and the working class.  I can read the federal budget and have.  I think any view that an in an individual candidate could ruin the hard working ambition of this county is extreme.  You answered my point perfectly.  Integrity stopped you from quitting everything.  And there will always be a segment of society that will try and game and abuse the system.  They are called criminals.  Are you telling me that under the Bush, Clinton, Bush administrations you didn't quit working even though there were high taxes and this travisty of welfare, but you are going to now?  No.  Neither will the rest of the country.  It is not in our work ethic.

[MountainDon]

If it wasn't for "the rich" as you call them, there would be fewer companies out there providing jobs. Not everyone you might class as rich sits around doing nothing or getting kickbacks. Yes, kickbacks, insider info deals, waste by government should all be dealt with harshly. But so should we deal harshly with welfare bums.

Not everyone who accepts a government handout is a bum. Many use the available agencies and funds as a temporary stop gap. But there are many who take advantage of the system. We have run into some of those in various business dealings. An example that comes to mind is a person we know who wouldn't accept a job opportunity they were perfectly suited for because it would be "on the books" and would reduce the amount of their government disability check. They weren't an illegal alien, they were a born and raised in America second generation welfare bum.  I could go on.

The more handouts are made available from various government agencies, the more some people will take advantage of them, abuse them. People need to work for what they receive otherwise it holds no value.

That's my view, YMMV.

[muldoon]

political class warfare. 

One side of the political structure says look at all those rich people getting government money and making you work hard and get screwed.  Damn them.  The other side says look at all those poor people getting handouts and making you work hard and get the shaft, damn them.

People just go along thinking its the other sides fault that they are unhappy in life.  The haves and have-nots battle is age old.  It's very easy to blame someone else for your problems.  And we all have problems and life drama, rich or poor.  The part that infuriates me is how every just goes along with it thinking that their side is going to one day "win" and stick it to the other side. 

Poor people have been voting democratic for 50 years, they're still poor.

[MountainDon]

I read somewhere once that if you did redistribute all the wealth equally, after a period of time you would once again have people who bacame richer and people who became poorer.

[Sassy]

It's the age old fight between the classes that has always gone on - & you are right MtnDon, you even the playing field & the resourceful, creative, go-getters will get ahead while the "take care of me mentality" people will fall behind.  There are times when a person needs help & the safety nets are needed, but because so many in society rely on gov't to take care of them the close-knit neighbor/community/church support is going by the wayside, people become strangers & therefore enemies... 

[MountainDon]

Yep, somewhat akin to lottery winners, the really big ones. All too often five years later they have no more money than they started with. Some end up worse off.

Throwing money at a problem, looking for that to be the solution is a waste of time and money all too often.

[StinkerBell]

You can never redistribute the wealth to achieve equality. It can not be done. People are individuals and how the place their morals and priorities will defer. Some people are savers, they will go without certain items, whereas others will not live without their daily Starbucks (I say this as a former Starbucks addict ). How do we decided what basics needs are? I think basic needs are food, shelter, clothing. Others define basic needs as, food, shelter,clothing, cable, internet, automobile, cell phone.....

The Constitution promises us the right to pursue happiness and equality under the law. I am not sure when We The People started thinking that we are guarantee of happiness and  entitled to a living style of equality.


I hope my thoughts make sense...I tend to ramble at times.

[MountainDon]

That key word "pursue" is frequently skipped over. There's no guarantee on results.

[desdawg]

I am happy to see some other people joining in this discussion. I refuse to enable bad behaviour unless it's forced upon me. So I will oppose Obama. I heard there were 13% undecided in a recent poll. Gee I can't understand that. Growing up in Montana and living 14 years in Colorado and now over 23 in Arizona I relate much better to Westerners than I do to those from the East. I think we have a different value system in place than citified folks. I don't disagree with everything squirl is saying I just despise the idea of giving handouts to able bodied people. 
I have a buddy in Texas who used to say you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink. But you can damn sure make him wish he would have.
Anyway with that I am done with it.

[georgevacabin]

Very interesting posts.  To add another perspective (fuel to the fire?  ), here is a something from a local columnist (I'm on the Left coast):


Annette John-Hall: Pit bull of a hockey mom leading war on diversity

By Annette John-Hall

Inquirer Columnist

No matter how much John McCain tried to reclaim his party's middle ground while accepting the Republican nomination for president last night, I still can't shake the feeling that we have another war on our hands.

Because both McCain and V.P. running mate Sarah Palin - the high-sticking hockey mom and self-possessed pit bull who's all too willing to smudge her lipstick, as long as it leaves a mark on Barack Obama's jugular - told us in no uncertain terms that they're about to wage battle.

And, no, it isn't going to be over health care, the economy or Iraq, issues that voters say matter most.

This is a culture war over which Americans are the most most American.

And, at least the way the Republicans have framed the argument, small-town, blue-collar citizens have cornered the market on hard work, patriotism and virtue.

If you live in the city or have a college degree, forget it. You're not one of us.

At least that's what Palin aptly conveyed with a smirk and a smile in her speech Wednesday night.

Riding a spate of mean-spirited Rudy Giuliani punch lines, Palin took her own nasty swipe at community organizing, thereby dissing the millions of citizens who benefited from it.

Conveniently forgetting about the work done by the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. - the world's greatest community organizer. Not to mention dismissing her own time spent as a PTA mom, because, after all, isn't room mothering a most personal form of community building?

Just maybe Palin's stabbing ignorance was calculated because the folks who live off King's legacy don't make up the Republican base.

"We grow good people in our small towns, with honesty, sincerity, and dignity," Palin said in a speech watched by 37.2 million viewers. "I grew up with those people. . . . They are the ones who grow our food, run our factories, and fight our wars.

"They love their country, in good times and bad, and they're always proud of America."


Color missing

Yet it was hard not to notice the glaring lack of diversity being "celebrated" by proud Americans on the convention floor Wednesday night. Compared with the Democrats, the Republicans made for a stunningly homogeneous visual.

They seemingly ignored the fact that America is rapidly moving to a majority of ethnic minorities. African Americans made up only 36 of the 2,380 GOP delegates, the lowest number since conventions began tracking such numbers 40 years ago.

While the Republicans are heralding the choice of a female vice presidential candidate as historic, I guess racial diversity will have to wait its turn.

And speaking of Track, isn't it interesting how the Palins' family dynamic has added a surreal flip of the script of talking points for the religious right?

Poor Bristol Palin. The oldest Palin daughter, unwed and pregnant at 17, has unwillingly become the Republicans' new poster girl for abstinence - I mean, family values - standing with her proud-to-be-a-redneck boyfriend, who reportedly noted on his MySpace page that he doesn't want kids.

Now he's betrothed. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a shotgun at that wedding.

Ironic, isn't it, that it wasn't long ago that conservative yakkers gleefully described Michelle Obama - who has made it clear that her children will always be her No. 1 priority - as a "baby mama."

I guess such a foul double standard goes hand in hand with unreasonably high bars of expectation that the Obamas have been forced to jump - especially when race is applied.

It reminds me of comedian D.L. Hughley's biting take on teen pregnancy:

"When white girls get pregnant, they get a movie. When black girls get pregnant, they get a visit from a social worker and a box of condoms."

(continued)

[georgevacabin]

(cont.)



Reality show

While Palin stars in a northern-exposure reality show as a moose-hunting, basketball playing, state-governing former beauty queen in three-inch heels and cool eyewear, she doesn't necessarily relate to most working moms' basic experience.

The woman that McCain keeps saying over and over should be a glowing example for all women to emulate is not a reflection of my life.

It's downright insulting to me - and many other women.

Truth is, Superwoman may live in comic books, but not on Earth. Not even in the great state of Alaska.

"I'm a teacher with two kids and a husband and I struggle every day. None of it gets the attention it deserves," says Michelle Daniszewski, 35, who is married and lives on the Main Line. "Maybe [Palin] is this great woman who can manage, but I don't know how."

Not only that, Daniszewski believes that a dedicated mother wouldn't exploit a pregnant daughter and a baby with Down syndrome as pawns for political gain.

"I do think of her less as a mom because she put her [children] in a horrible situation," she said.

But other working women such as Karen Green, 38, of Ardmore, a mother of a 4-year-old, saw Palin as "refreshing" and "charismatic."

"Even though I was shocked at the choice, I thought she did a great job," Green says.

Green, a registered Republican, represents the coveted undecided female voter that Republicans hope Palin can hand over with a small-town smile.

But she is not your typical Republican voter. Green admits she would love to see a McCain-Joe Biden ticket. And her concern over the state of health care has the pharmaceutical rep considering an Obama vote.

One of many issues Palin failed to address Wednesday night.

Which didn't go unnoticed by Green. "I need more detail and context from all of them," she said, adding: "I probably won't know what I'll do until I go into the voting booth in November."

But one thing is certain. Her vote won't be based on a gun-toting woman emerging as the darling of her party's ticket.



****Hope that wasn't too long****

[sparks]

Community Organizing ??

Who's community? Haven't seen the "O" in my neighborhood.

Obama is a product of the Chicago democratic machine.

I know where his interests lie.

And I don't agree with hardly any of his politics.

I'm sick and tired of watching my taxes go to bottom feeders that pay none.

[georgevacabin]

Hi Sparks,

Are there folks that organize fund raisers (a car wash, lemonade stands, 5k walk/runs, bake sales ) for your local high school team jerseys?  Collect money to help repair the roof at the old VFW hall?  Ever been to a barn raising ?!?  I would consider any organizing that helps to bring together or support a community is 'community organizing.'  Even if they simply collect money from the local business.  Granted, there are various levels of course.  I would venture to say that most community activities that involve a 'community' (more that one person) is lead by a 'community organizer.'  It serves to strengthen, bond, and protect a community.

I may be at risk of being too simplistic, especially when a mind is made up.  However, if community organizers did not step up and lead - no matter how small or large the community or issue - our country would be in a sadder state than it currently finds itself.  Though maybe not glamorous, and generally larger undertakings in urban vs rural areas, community organizing is important.

[georgevacabin]

When you state "And I don't agree with hardly any of his politics."  it begs the question - what Obama policies are agreeable?  These are complicated times with complicated issues.  Where do the parties (not the politicians) agree?

[georgevacabin]

As I sign off a question came to my mind  . . . as a moderator of this forum, could Glen also be called the 'organizer' of this 'community?' 

Okay.  Corny I know. 

Off to bed. 

Stay well all!

[sparks]

Geo, Are you infering car washes, lemo stands, and 5K bake sales make a running platform ?

Organizing Skills? The 'O' was much more than that. But where are his real leadership skills?

This guy voted 131 times "present" while in the Illinois Senate.  WTF is that ?

Since this is the VP thread....well, don't care for for either one.

Just being a grouchy old bas-tard tonight.

ps...the bottom line , my taxes being given away....without my say  

[sparks]

Glen is a rabble rouser, and he knows it!!     so was jc 

[MountainDon]

This guy voted 131 times "present" while in the Illinois Senate.  WTF is that ?

Exactly!!!