Illegal Immigration; where do you stand?

[MountainDon]

Legal Immigration is fine. I do have a problem with illegal immigration. And because we mostly don't have a problem with Canadians trying to sneak in across our northern border, this centers around illegal immigration over our southern border from Mexico. Boat people from Haiti, Cuba are a relatively minor problem.

Up front I should state that I am an immigrant. I'm from Canada. I did it legally. I filled out all the papers, paid the fees, jumped thru the hoops, attended the interviews. I had to have my father-in-law sign a paper stating that he would be financially responsible for me; that I would not be a burden to the US government/taxpayers if I should not be able to support myself.

I think you have an idea of where I stand by now.

I am totally against giving any illegal immigrants a break. Today's newspaper had an article noting that over 1.1 million illegals were arrested in 2005. Very few cases went to court... we can't afford the dollars it would take. Yet our government has decided to allow illegal immigrants to collect social security! Sure maybe they've paid into the system; but they're still here illegally!

My state (New Mexico) grants them lower cost in-state university and college tuition; they're even eligible for free tuition. What's going on here?

I could go on and on on this topic. Maybe you agree with me, maybe you don't. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm not.

IF, you feel like I do you may be interested in http://www.numbersusa.com/actionbuffet

... stepping off my soapbox now  

[glenn kangiser]

I'm not for them getting benefits unless they pay in much more than they receive as we do.  For myself I hope I never have to even collect social security.  I've even considered opting out of the system, except if you do it it is nearly impossible to conduct business in the real world.  It is possible to file papers and opt out but not necessarily easy.

I feel for our lifestyle, we do need the slaves.  The Mexicans are our modern day slaves -no other way to look at them.  Our loss of jobs to them is getting worse as more and more of us are forced into menial jobs by our corporations outsourcing all of our good jobs to 3rd world countries to increase their bottom line - not so much for their investors as for their corporate elite.  This puts more and more of us competing with the Mexicans for the labor jobs.  Even at that we could not supply all of the menial jobs because we've been spoiled for too long.  Our hind ends have become too wide for us to bend over working all day at a real hard job.

Corporate America is only handing out a few of the cushy jobs to the ones higher up the food chain.  The rest are going to have to compete for the slave jobs.  It doesn't matter if we keep them all out - we won't get paid more.  The corporations and their political whores who they pay off to allow it will continue to sell us down the river - labor is going global and middle and lower class Americans are returning to serfdom.

[jwv]

"Supply always comes on the heels of demand."

Americans aren't willing, or possibly able, to pay a fare price for anything.

Judy

[PEG688]

Legal is good , all other not good . Give aways free lunch / medical / etc all bogus a ride to the border and a boot in the arse , good enought.

I can say that Az. border is tighter than 2 or 3 years ago , one of my stepdaughters is a owner of a fast food operation,  20 some stores 8-) , and they moved the operation from Wa. state to Az. due to the business enviroment in Wa. state to Az. about 5 years ago , it is much harder from her to find employees for her stores due to that tightening up .

She does check  and does her required part in checking out employees , the white kids don't want to work , or very few do , and due , or in part ,  to state and Fed. tighting up,  labor is harder to find . Legal or presieved legal .  So that is good for us , and bad for her , as she does need employees . In fact nation wide that chain is gearing up for a employee void they think is coming in the next five years , they are trying to automate more stuff just for that shortage of labor.  

She , my stepdaughter is not the atypical employee of that chain of "dead end " jobs , she started with them in high school , she ddi get her college degree on her own , but now owns many stores with her business partner. Only in American  

[glenn kangiser]

That's cool PEG.  Good for her.

Thinking about this a bit I think that letting them work and pay into the system even if illegal should be OK -- Just don't let them get benefits until they are legal.  That would raise the pot some so the politicians could take more out and put in their IOU's for their pet projects or they could find a way to get it into their family bank accounts.  That should really help out the old portfolio.  .  I bet that will fly -- I'll probably get promoted for that one.  Dubya will want me for an adviser.

[Amanda_931]

I keep wondering how many of my ancestors could come to this country under today's rules.  Or would have been deported after he was here a while--there is at least one rascal in my family tree.

[MountainDon]

I keep wondering how many of my ancestors could come to this country under today's rules.  Or would have been deported after he was here a while--there is at least one rascal in my family tree.

If they're here legally, and a naturalized citizen, they'd be treated as any other US citizen. If on a "green card" more than likely the same unless it was some particularly heinous crime. If they are here illegally and get caught for whatever, they should be fair game for deportation. Just my opinion. And if you are here legally you should become a citizen; it's not that difficult.

As for today's rules, the times are different too. Back when my great-grand parents emigrated (to Canada, one a White Russian, the other German) the country was seeking people to populate the country. Pretty much the same thing when my in-laws ancestors came to the USA (from Germany and Poland) and were processed through Ellis Island. They all had legal status to be here. They all became citizens on ther adopted land.

Maybe I'm hung up on the legal issue. Maybe that's because I did it legally?  :-/  Not every one in the world has a god-given (allah-given, whoever-given) right to live in the USA. It is a great place when all things are considered. A good book is "What's So Great About America?" by Dinesh D'Souza, an immigrant from India.

[Amanda_931]

I do know one non-citizen but long time legal resident who was deported for an ancient (and, said friends, probably bogus) felony conviction.  

There's another I sometimes worry about, far fewer contacts in the old country, not much if any usuable language left, who often rubs people the wrong way, sometimes very much so.

[MountainDon]

Something like that is unfortunate; I do feel bad for people crap like that happens to. I assume this was something that had happened in another country a while back? It's hard to say how that should have been handled. We always hear about apparent miscarriages, and sometimes don't have all the pertinent facts presented to us. It would be very difficult to adapt back to the former country after many years absence/lack of contact.

It would be easy to say that it's the person's own fault for not listing the former "legal problem" on the application. Perhaps there was a language problem. There is a question on the immigration application that asks for all arrests, not just convictions, to be listed. Even if you had received a pardon for the offense in the other country, you have to list the events. If you don't tell the complete truth, it can come back to haunt you at a later date. Admission of some prior arrests or convictions doesn't necessarily automatically cancel your eligibility. It will slow the process, likely cause more investigation, interviews, etc. I know having to admit to something like that would be of concern to the applicant.

Many of our government systems are not perfect, not even humane at times. Most of the time they work, but it's hell when something goes wrong.

[StinkerBell]

My one cent.

We already have laws on the books that are not enforced. I am just wondering why (sarcastic emote here) we are going to add more or new laws when we do not even adhere to the current laws.

[MountainDon]

 I agree we have laws that, if enforced, would alleviate much of the problem of illegals. However, a good portion of the problem comes from employers who flaunt the verification laws. But associated with that, employers who do try to follow the laws, do have a real problem with the readily availability of counterfeit documents.

[Amanda_931]

Don wrote:

I assume this was something that had happened in another country a while back? It's hard to say how that should have been handled.

No, in the US maybe 30 years before.

[glenn kangiser]

My one cent.

We already have laws on the books that are not enforced. I am just wondering why (sarcastic emote here) we are going to add more or new laws when we do not even adhere to the current laws.

Actually our government doesn't really want the laws enforced - may more excuses to take away more of our freedom when they see fit.  Just recently a border patrol officer who was doing his job was put in prison for violating the rights of the illegal he was apprehending.  Sassy posted it I think.

[MountainDon]

Not sure if I made myself clear.... the felony that was the cause for the deportation... it ocurred in the US or elsewhere, prior to the move to the US?  Just curious.

[MountainDon]

Just recently a border patrol officer who was doing his job was put in prison for violating the rights of the illegal he was apprehending.  Sassy posted it I think.

I followed that case closely; happened near enough that it was all over our local news. Very sad, very fishy case.

[Leo]

the most expensive 34 'sailboat built as of 1987 was for a communications lobby in dc.The reasons the laws aren't enforced is you're elected official has freebies ,dinner and donations from lobbyist they want cheap labor here.so we have it.both party's are the same here.the laws are a moot point and will be as long as government by lobbyist is a way of life.I doubt that will change but only get worse.A dysfunctional gridlock IMHO =bring you're overhead expenses down by eliminating as soon as possible dealings with lending institutions.I have wanted a certain toy for years instead by end of summer I could call cabin home.debt free 50 a month utility's that=freedom and money for toys.

[glenn kangiser]

You got it, Leo.

[StinkerBell]

It has been 3 border guards in the last year placed in prison. IMO all 3 of them are Political Prisoners.

My one cent.

We already have laws on the books that are not enforced. I am just wondering why (sarcastic emote here) we are going to add more or new laws when we do not even adhere to the current laws.

Actually our government doesn't really want the laws enforced - may more excuses to take away more of our freedom when they see fit.  Just recently a border patrol officer who was doing his job was put in prison for violating the rights of the illegal he was apprehending.  Sassy posted it I think.

[StinkerBell]

I also want to add some irony to the pot here. I will be required to get a passport (I already have one but that is mute) to return from Canada. Yet the Border Guards can not even stop or ask if someone is an illegal on the Southern Border. It seems to me at times that laws are for the law abiding tax paying citizens only.

[glenn kangiser]

Don't accidentally smash your RFID chip in your passport with a hammer, Stinkerbell.  It won't work then.

://www.boingboing.net/2006/12/28/howto_disable_your_n.html

3 guards, eh?   Guess we missed a couple -- do your job - go to Shrubs prison --- See Don -- freedom is not really freedom anymore.

Enforcement of laws is for those who can pay the fines.  No money -- no worries.

[Sassy]

Hey, MtnDon, we are on the same page - I'm constantly faxing & calling concerning the immigration issue & get regular updates & Action Alerts from "NumbersUSA"...

I have no problem with immigration - LEGAL, that is... just on the subject of health care - our ER's are totally impacted by illegal immigrants - the US citizen can hardly get care anymore because the illegals are using the ER's for their routine health care visits.  

If you or I were to present to an ER, all of our financial info would be gathered... with illegals, no questions asked... just like you stated that you would need a passport to come back to the US from Canada - our border patrols are being arrested & imprisoned for pursuing illegals at the southern border  :-/ - what the heck is going on?  

Take a look at the thread "Towards a North American Union" on the "Security & Prosperity Partnership" (SPP) that was signed by Bush, Vincente Fox & the then prime minister of Canada (can't remember his name) in  March of 2005 - I've posted lots of links to articles & the history - basically, Bush, Rumsfield, Rice & others are meeting with non-elected officials from all 3 countries to do away with our borders - which would entail a common constitution & currency.  

There's also the "Super hiway" that is being protested in Texas right now - I'm all for good relationships with my neighbors & adequate freeways etc, but take a look at what is planned - even a Mexican customs in Kansas City!    

This once was a "free" country, even with all its problems, but the laws that have been enacted during the past 20 years by both the Republican & Democrat administrations have basically taken away those freedoms - all they have to do is enact them & you will see just how "free" we really are.

April 4, 2007The Fiscal Cost of Low-Skill Households to the U.S. Taxpayer

[MountainDon]

Re: ER rooms. I've read that one of the "best" things a load of illegals can do if about to be apprehended is to cause a motor vehicle accident and everyone claim injuries. The police are then duty bound to take them to an ER. When the illegals are released they can usual walk away as the border patrol is prohibited to stake out hospitals.

(You may note that I use the term illegals quite freely instead of the politically correct, doublespeak, undocumented person/worker.)

Interesting note in today's paper... there are an estimated 30,000 illegal Irish in NYC.

[benevolance]

Well Don

You are speaking to the choir I think....We are all immigrants to this continent and to America....Unless 300 years ago your grandfather's name meant "running bear" or whatever.... Most all of us..Peg included came somewhere from Europe

When our ancestors came across the water we learned the language...Followed the laws...became part of society.... All that many of us are asking the Mexicans or Columbians... spanish speaking illegals to do...Is follow the same rules and obey the same laws our families have followed to get here.

If you want to be here.... Prove it...Pay taxes...Get a real drivers license...Pay your medical bills...Become a part of society...Contribute instead of 8 guys living in a chevy van sending all their money back across to Mexico...

I see vans parked at gas stations here in the Carolina's and Illegals are sleeping in them at night...

You can bet that they pay a lot of taxes...Have valid ID cards and are all citizens

I have never owned my own gun....And do not really like guns much....But I know because my brother in law is a cop here...That if you get into an accident with a mexican or hispanic if you like that term better.....You are in trouble...Because as he said to me....99% of them here in South Carolina are illegal with no valid ID license insurance.... Nothing...

So when I go driving I avoid being in front of or directly behind the Hispanics...I stay the hell away from them on the road... Used to be you watched out for Blue hairs....Now you have to watch out for illegals too....just because you know they have no insurance or paperwork...And if they mess up your car the only thing you can do is get out...beat the ever living shit out of the guy....And his friends... turn them upside down and hopefully shake the repair or medical bill money out of the pieces of garbage.

This is not meant to be stereo typical...People of all colour religious and from all cultures deserve a chance at a better life in America or Canada..or wherever...

But there is a code of conduct that needs to be followed...If you are not going to become a citizen then you need to be hunted down and persecuted... because you have deliberately chosen to not follow the rules and become part of the country.

[MountainDon]

If you agree....
SIGN PETITION TO PRESIDENT BUSH TELLING HIM NO SANCTUARY CITIES FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS

Please go to  www.reformus.org  immediately and sign the petition to President Bush.

The petition says:

Dear President Bush,

Cities that openly flout our immigration laws by harboring illegal aliens should be prosecuted. These so-called "sanctuary cities" where illegal aliens are harbored, aided and abetted are in violation of Federal law and set a dangerous precedent of rewarding illegal aliens.

Please enforce the law and stop cities from harboring illegal aliens—especially when they are processed through the courts for crimes............  (more at    www.reformus.org

[Sassy]

Another good website for the latest on North American Union

Check into the planned US trucker's boycott if Bush goes through with his plans to allow unlimited Mexican trucks on our highways...  here's a link to an eye opening article JOIN NATIONAL TRUCK OUT BOYCOTT: TELL POLITICIANS TO EAT GARBAGE