Finger jointed studs

[williet]

Can a finger jointed 2x6 be used as a framing stud? Around here, I see many being used as rafters and I would think the stresses of downward pressure exerted from a roof on a long span would be greater than the stresses of the rafters sitting on a frame stud.

Any thoughts?

[MountainDon]

Fingerjointed studs must only be used as studs. Only studs, that's why they're called studs. Vertical placement only. Folks using them for anything else are simply asking for trouble and should be referred to as Idiots.

[williet]

Kinda what I was thinking, but I see them in 24, 26 or 28 foot lengths and used often as rafters on some of these monster houses with multiple pitchs on the roof.

[paul s]

i wonder i have hard finger joints are stronger than the surrounding wood in all cases but not sure

[MountainDon]

Okay, I'm going to back pedal a little ......

My local county will accept finger joint studs for vertical stud applications only. No use in horizontal or angled applications. That's mainly what I based my response on.

I'm reasonably certain that I've seen someplace in the IRC that finger-jointed wood 2x's are for vertical use only, but I could be wrong on that. That makes some sense as wood is incredibly strong in compression as compared to bending, shear or even tension loads.

Local building departments have the final word. Sometimes they are not too quick to jump on the bandwagon with the new manufacturing techniques and/or materials. Sometimes that might be a good thing, sometimes not.   :-/

To my jaundiced eye the little reading I've done on finger jointed studs is all very biased, in that it comes from the manufacturers of finger-jointed wood. IMO  It is claimed that these studs remain straighter than a natural piece of wood. If so, that could be a definite plus.

I wonder what PEG or John will have to say about this?

[paul s]

i did more checking there are two types o finger joints

one for studding only, vertical loads

the other is used as u would any other 2x but the finger joints only come in lengths over 16 feet
so are rarely seen or used

[williet]

Maybe those are what I've seen here used as rafters. My thoughts were based on seeing many finger joints come apart when under stress. Just don't seem right .... LOL.....

[PEG688]

One word JUNK!

[MountainDon]

Thought so.  

[PEG688]

I've used a few , had some / alot of them  misaligned , had one unit that had no glue ,they'd fall apart when you picked one up off the pile   . Haven't seen any in at least two years    8-) , I guess the lumber yard got sick of sending whole units back to the suppliers  

[MountainDon]

I've never seen any around here... just ran across a reference to them while reading up on the county p&z rules, do's, don't's....   then found references to them after googling them

[jraabe]

One of the reasons to use finger jointed material only for downward loads is that the wonderful thing about uninterrupted wood fibers (joists and rafters cut out of trees) is that, when in tension, they fail gracefully - in a slow saggy way.

Finger jointed material relies on glue rather that tough timber fibers and may fail in a much more unpredictable and dramatic way when under heavy tension. :'(

Downward compression loading is only pushing the fingers together.

More here: http://brecowoodproducts.com/index.html

[williet]

John,
So, around here, to get a 2x6x12 for the studs of a 20x30, I have only a couple of choices. They are pine, with all it's crowns, knots and twists or finger jointed spruce or fir. These seem to be strait borads with no knots, twists or crowns. IF they are ok to use in the walls of the 20x30 with balloon framing, that's what I will use. I see no reason why they wouldn't work. The stresses are downward and the studs will be sheathed with 5/8 OSB and clapboard siding on one side and 3/4 old barn wood on the other.

Thoughts?

[williet]

I meant to add .... there are no formal building codes where we will be building. My concern is only for what will work and give us a strong house.

[glenn-k]

I don't see a problem for that use.  

Where were you building again, Williet?

[peg_688]

I meant to add .... there are no formal building codes where we will be building. My concern is only for what will work and give us a strong house.

  There still crap , John may be a architect but I know damned well I've handled more lumber in my years , finger jointed studs are JUNK.

 Will they work for a vertical framed wall , yes.

  Will it be strong enought , yes.

  Could it be better if solid materails are used , IMO , yes.  

[glenn-k]

At least you don't have a strong opinion about it, PEG.

I agree - I've had finger jointed trim fall apart on me before.  And when they use it all for finger jointed wood, what does one do for a kindling pile? :-?

Nevermind.  I need some coffee. :-/

[peg_688]

The problems with them out weight the bennies , your load may be fine , maybe you can go check out your load / unit of studs , I don't have that luxury each and every time .

This misaligned joints , the unit that came with no glue , every stud in the pile would fall apart no matter how you craddled it , as a builder that ONE of the things you don't want a cliant to see, studs that fall apart when lifted   Ta;l about lookin like a hack / cheap arse / bum / rip off contractor etc etc . YMMV on this whole issue , if you buy finger jointed studs and catch a good lot / unit you may be golden.

I can't afford / the time / effort/ argavation of dealing witha product that has FAILED misrably in the past , I move on / avoid futher use. Simple , again YMMV  

[glenn-k]

Studs that fall apart when you pick them up-- I would be pretty uncontrollably mad.  

[jraabe]

Agreed PEG - It would be a better built world if we were still cutting old growth trees and getting straight studs 16' long.

In the meantime we can get the material designed to replace those perfect boards - finger jointed studs from a reputable mill and from a lumber yard that ships and stores the material properly.

Structurally, this is designed for projects like the 1.5 story cottage.

[williet]

Thanks John. PEG, I've cut out my share of bowed and twisted solid studs too. In fact, a friend had 144 eight foot studs removed and replaced from the house a professional builder was doing for him. They twisted and bowed AFTER the house was framed and almost blacked in. What John says is correct. IF and it's a BIG if...you can find good wood, soild wood is wonderful....but around here, it's nearly impossible.

Don, around here is North Alabama, home to paper mills and chip mills. We're going to build in a rural county and there are no building codes to follow other than plumbing. There will be no bank involved in our construction, so I'm the person to please, not some bureaucrat building inspector. They have their place (and I've done enough repair work to houses that were built like shacks to appreciate them) but their place is not on my place! LOL

[John_C]

This has been an interesting thread to me.  In my boatbuilding days we scarfed lots of structural members to length.  Mostly stringers for cold molded construction and various parts for masts and booms.  The cantilever mast on my last boat was 42' long.  The outside dimensions tapered from  6-1/2"  at the partnerts (where it passed through the deck)  to 2-1/2 " at the masthead.  The wall thickness tapered from 2" at the bottom to 11/16 at the top....  all scarfed together at 1/12 from douglas fir.  In boatbuilding a properly scarfed and glued piece is considered as strong as solid lumber.  Under stress the pieces are as likely to fail between the joints.

The few times I have seen finger joint lumber it has been complete trash.  Other than for decorative painted trim I would avoid the stuff at all costs.  If I can get plans through building & zoning I will frame the walls with 2x8 yellow pine if I can't find decent spf 2x6's.   Perhaps they are ok for walls but don't go there for rafters.  You'll be home some night with severe thunderstorm warnings, lying awake wondering how secure those crappy joints really are.  I'm in N. GA not too far from AL so I presume ourlumber situation is comparable.

[williet]

Hi neighbor,

I, too, have seen many finger jointed pieces of trash...just as I've seen many solid trash studs. In fact, I was just at the local HD and saw a group of men trying to find 20 strait 2x6x12's...no luck, they left with about 15 "they thought they could get to work"after going through the entire stack.

I hate finger jointed crown and have had several sticks break on me. Other trim seems to always show the joints after painting and there's no way I'd use jointed for a rafter. BUT I can see no reason to avoid a good strait stud that's jointed...especially if it's sheathed on both sides.

For me, after seeing what my area has to offer in the way of 2x6 material and reading all I can find on the subject, I'll have to use them.

[jraabe]

The other thing you could do if you have nothing better to work with is to make your own extended length studs. Splice two good studs cut at an angle with plywood or 1x materials glued to one or both sides. How much torsion or bending stress will this be under? Stagger the joints up and down as your wall is framed so as to spread out the pain.

Remember, all this will be made into a diaphragm with the structural sheathing. If you are worried you can glue the sheathing to the studs and increase the stiffness of the wall considerably.

Notch one for the redundancy of wood frame construction. You get some automatic slack...

Bridges should be built this way