Low impact refridgerators?

Bishopknight · October 28, 2007, 07:57:35 PM

Does anyone know some high efficiency refridgerators that would be low power usage for a solar electric system?

I'm looking for a midsize one in the future and I realize that fridges are the biggest drain on a system. I'd love to hear what people have done considering this problem.

Are these fridges good? http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-refrigerators/americana-fridge-single.htm

MountainDon · October 28, 2007, 08:32:44 PM

Hi there BishopKnight. We've tossed this topic around a bit in one form and another, once just recently.
This topic: http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1193091924/0
The mostly fridge specific stuff starts about this point....
http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1193091924/22#22

Some info and questions for you though...
You mention solar electric and then the PPL link to an RV fridge. Those RV fridges work best on propane. The electric options, DC and AC make use of resistance heaters. Very poor choice for electrical use.

So, without getting into the DIY refrigeration arena, you can power a fridge with Propane, DC or AC power. There are different costs in initial outlay and different recurring costs, as in paying the propane dealer or not.

When you say midsize, how many Cu.Ft? Fridge & Freezer combo?

Read the link I posted; it's a place to start and come back with more questions.

Here's another recent one http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1192748227

There are some other topics as I recall. Try the forum search link.

October 28, 2007, 08:59:03 PM

That last link is mine Bishop. After all the discussion, I have decided to buy 2 of the midsized propane (still working on the exact one) so I'll have the space if needed and able to cut one off if needed.
Read the links carefully. Glenn and Don are two of the most creative people I know with Des running right with them.

Refrigeration and AC are the two most wasteful items in an off grid home so pick carefully.

Bishopknight · October 29, 2007, 04:51:37 PM

Thanks Don and Peter!

Some interesting stuff in that thread, especially about the case freezer being converted to a refrigerator. I wonder if some freezers will allow you to set the temperature way down to refrigerator levels?

5 cubic feet total would be enough for us but I would prefer that Servel RGE400 Don mentions in one thread.

When you go with propane on a fridge about 7 cubic feet, what is the best way to store propane ( size tank, filling frequency, ect )

Thanks,
BK

glenn kangiser · October 29, 2007, 04:56:00 PM

Depends on what is available. Truck delivers here so 250 gallon tank lasts us about a year, but we fill every 6 months or so. We run propane cookstove, water heater, and clothes dryer.

October 29, 2007, 05:06:32 PM

Depends on the dealer too. Some you can lease the tank from for about $1 a week around here for 200 - 250 gallon size. Most around here want to fill it twice a year minimum. You tell them what appliances you have, how many people and they estimate the size for you.

Of course you can also buy your own tank.

desdawg · October 29, 2007, 11:50:37 PM

I run my propane refrigerator on 100# cylinders that I transport myself. I don't think anyone would deliver to me so I haven't asked. The burner is very small and doesn't use much gas. Let me also say I have never been very impressed with the propane fridge. If I could decide on a good electrical alternative I would probably do it but I am off grid and upsizing the solar electric system get's expensive. Lately I haven't been there enough to use it much so it is a back burner priority but someday I am going to want to deal with it.

MountainDon · October 30, 2007, 12:21:03 AM

Desdawg, can we ask what kind/brand of propane fridge and what it is that does not impress you?

THis may or may not be the place to toss this tidbit of info out.... with my RV fridge (a Norcold) I improved the performance (reduced the propane use, reduced the time to cool down), by installing a baffle behind the fridge to force all the convection air flow through the condenser coils on the back of the fridge. The way the factory installed the fridge left a 2 inch gap behind the coils. That let the air flowing up through the coils bypass the coils through the extra empty space. Gluing a couple strips of blue foam in place (to the wall of the RV) reduced the space behind the coils to about 1/4 inch. The rising air has to pass thru the coils and more efficiently removes the heat from the condenser.

For anyone using an RV fridge in a non-RV situation, such as free standing in a cabin, placing a sheet of 1/4 inch plywood or whatever behind the unit to create a chimney effect will improve the cooling performance.

Those are the coils at or near the top of the fridge rear.

It's a maze of mystery plumbing

glenn kangiser · October 30, 2007, 12:47:25 AM

I liked this pix to take away some of the mystery. I studied it a bit before so semi-understand it.

...from the link you posted on the other thread.

http://www.nh3tech.org/abs.html

October 30, 2007, 12:59:35 AM

One other bug-a-boo area with a propane fridge is in the burner area itself. When a unit is turned off, no flame, for a period of time, it is possible for spiders to take up residence in the burner tube/chimney. Their webs can interfere with proper air flow, proper burner operation. I've never found a spider web in mine though they are active elsewhere in the RV. Just another possible area of concern. :-/

G'nite

glenn kangiser · October 30, 2007, 01:12:16 AM

We have had that problem - along with a bit of carbon build-up. Easy to clean up - usually a few taps on the burner area, but can build CO.

Nighty-nite, Don

desdawg · October 30, 2007, 08:17:25 AM

I have been trying to remember the brand name on the fridge but old timers seems to be setting in. And it is 250 miles away so I can't run and get a quick look. It was built by the Menonites, I remember that and it "only" cost about $900, I remember that. Those things are pricey. I left all of my manuals and receipts in the hills with the unit. I had the retailer there once to work on it and I hauled it back out one time to get it worked on. Maybe mine is just a lemon that will never work right. I am used to appliances that go in and work for years without a hitch. The brand name will come to me.....eventually.

EZ FREEZE. I was able to pick it up in Palden, AZ on my way north so no shipping charges. Of course I only wanted to transport it once.

glenn kangiser · October 30, 2007, 09:38:56 AM

I had a little trouble finding it on-line but maybe if it's a lemon, we don't want to find it?

Here's a bit of info on it.

http://www.bensdiscountsupply.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=842

What were the problems you had, desdawg? :-?

desdawg · October 30, 2007, 11:03:28 PM

I misspoke. It was made by the Amish. The current models available can be found here if you scroll down the page. I don't see the one I have listed anymore. Mine is the same style but the small upper door is not a freezer compartment. The theory is you keep your drinks and high usage items in the top compartment so you are not dumping your cold air opening the larger lower door except at mealtime. As for problems it took a long time to get cold and then not all that cold. It defeats the purpose when you have to keep ice in the refrigerator to keep it cold. And the piezo wouldn't light the burner. I always had to pull it out of it's nook and be a contortionist to hand light it. These guys have always been really great about servicing it. They even made a trip up the hill to my location which is a fair distance for them to come. So I don't have any complaints with them.
http://www.warehouseappliance.com/propane_gas_refrigerators.htm

October 30, 2007, 11:16:00 PM

My RV propane fridge experience is that they do not cool down as quickly as a regular home AC powered fridge. I believe that is generally true of all propane fridges.

I have a love/hate relationship with piezo igniters. Usually my RV fridge fires up within a few to a few dozen hits of the spring loaded button when it's being cantankerous, like 2 weekends ago.

But once it's going I sometimes have trouble keeping it from freezing stuff inside. The thermostat is numbered 1 to 6 and I normally have it set at about 1.75.

desdawg · October 30, 2007, 11:18:31 PM

I wish I had your problem Don. $900 was a lot of money to me at that time (and it still is) but apparently it wasn't enough. :-/

Sassy · October 30, 2007, 11:24:00 PM

I just defrosted the freezers in our 2 fridges today :-/ After I was all finished with the propane fridge, had put everything back, turned it back on, I noticed that the evaporator inside the fridge part had a huge piece of ice that was frozen on to it... don't know why - I just left it, I wasn't going to take everything out again & turn the thing off. (actually I just turned it down to the warmest setting while defrosting it - didn't know if Glenn would have to perform gymnastics relighting it

)

glenn kangiser · October 30, 2007, 11:33:46 PM

That was enjoyable, desdawg -- I had to watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsfVw9xxoNY

as it referred to Amish as Mennonites near the end.

So -- I found the difference -- same root but split in 1693.

QuoteOne of the teachings of the Amish faith is called the ban or shunning. This is based on the New Testament command not to associate with a church member who does not repent of his sinful conduct. The purpose of this discipline is to help the member realize the error of his ways and to encourage his repentance, after which he would be restored to church fellowship.

This excommunication was at first only applied at the communion table. However, the followers of Jacob Amman felt the unrepentant individual should be completely shunned or avoided by all church members. This belief, along with other differences, led to Amman's split with the Mennonites in 1693. His followers were later called Amish.

So -- a little history there to go with your refrigerator.

desdawg · October 30, 2007, 11:43:44 PM

So it was built by the Menonites-once removed? How cool is that? I can't keep those groups straight. When I was growing up in Montana we had Huderites in the area. But I never really learned much about them either. Heck, I am still trying to recover from the Catholocism that was inflicted upon me in my youth. LOL.

glenn kangiser · October 30, 2007, 11:51:01 PM

It could have been worse, desdawg. Try JW.

October 30, 2007, 11:54:28 PM

I defrost mine with a hair dryer. Fire up the generator, take everything out, blast the ice on high, mop up the water and ice pieces, reload the fridge and, done!

glenn kangiser · October 31, 2007, 12:03:35 AM

I have a heat gun that would probably work fine for that too.

Just don't try it on your hair like Larry King did.

MountainDon · October 31, 2007, 12:11:45 AM

Hutterites. We had lots of them back in Manitoba as well. They were communal, living in Colonies. Black was their usual clothing color, polka dotted black for women, different colored polka dots, sometimes brightly colored. Their farms always had the best and newest trucks (all steel grain boxes with dumps, whereas my uncle had wood en boxes and had to rely on the grain elevator lifts to unload. Modern machinery compared to most private individual family farms. Everything owned by the colony. No TV, and a radio only in the home of the manager/minister. I knew a few Hutterites and they were friendly folks. The ones I knew ran a large modern egg laying farm.

MountainDon · February 10, 2008, 06:26:54 PM

Peter Nap.

When you come across this would you add your comments about what fridge(s) you bought and how you like them? If you ever answered that I can't find it.

NM_Shooter · February 11, 2008, 03:45:53 PM

Here's a low impact fridge....(sorry, I couldn't resist)

Gut it got me to wondering if I could take water out of a spring, and pump it either into a heat exchanger tube in an insulated box and use that to chill the container. Anybody ever do that? The water is really cold, but not down to 30's obviously...

-f-