wiring

[dogneck]

I'm getting ready to wire the 14x24 addition.   I'll have an electrican do the hookups.   I want to drill and pull the wire.    It will have three florecent ceiling lights, two overhead fans.  One PTAC motel type heat pump and about six outlets.

What is the rule of thumb for running all this wire.   Drill hole in the center of the 2x4 studs.   But how many holes can I put in one stud.   I'm going to try to not drill into the 2x10 ceiling joists, but will probably have to drill through one or two,   but will have to drill through the top double 2x4 top plates.   

Any suggestions appreciated.  I could just trust the electrician about how many holes to drill,  but I don't want to weaken the structure, if he doesn't know better,  or just doesn't care.
Thanks.

[MountainDon]

CUTS and NOTCHES, for any purpose...
THESE ARE STRUCTURAL LIMITS< ELECTRICAL HAS SPECIAL CONSIDERATIONS (see below; I don't have an electrical specific drawing)
for exterior and load bearing walls...


for non load bearing walls


for rafters and ceiling joists


for floor joists

[MountainDon]

The holes you drill through the studs must be a minimum of 1 1/4" from both faces of the studs. That is to say you need 1 1/4" of wood between the wiring and the stud face... not 1 1/4 to the center of the hole. This may necessitate the use of nail plates to protect the wiring. If you are running PEX or other non-matallic water piping that's also a good idea for that.

You can drill the holes closer to the inside and use the nail plates on the inside face.

[alcowboy]

Good-to-know information there Don-e boy! Thanks so much. I am learning lots through this forum. I am hoping to start my project in spring.

[John_C]

Don,

OK you've confused me..... Yes, I know it's easily done

The drawing shows 5/8" min from the edge of the hole to the edge of the stud.  Then you wrote

The holes you drill through the studs must be a minimum of 1 1/4" from both faces of the studs.

    Just curious.  Even 1-1/4 ea. side leaves a 1" hole in a 2x4 stud.  Never had a problem with that.   

[MountainDon]

John C, I knew that was going to come up,  but I don't have an electrical specific drawing. Those holes and notches are the limits allowed structurally. I added a big note above the drawings. I threw in all the drawing (from IRC2003) because dogneck mentioned drilling into joists.

You're right on the holes centered on a 2x4 being safe, but sometimes people don't drill, or can't drill in the center. Thanks

[John_C]

Not a problem.

Now that I'm back to swinging a hammer for a living I'm trying to get caught up on code changes over the past too many years.  My county went from no building code or inspections just a few years ago to oppressive code extortion all in one giant step. 

I look through magazines like Dwell  or in fact many of the things here on the forum and all I can see is one code violation after another.  It's silly.  Doing renovations on houses built 20 or so years ago, when we didn't have a building department, is a problem.  Almost nothing on them would meet current code.  Adding a new porch railing with current code acceptable balusters to and old porch with some attractive but non-compliant railings creates lots of issues.  Where do we stop?  The railings don't meet code. Nor the way the entire porch is attached to the house, nor the rise/run of the existing main entry stairs...  in fact the front door no longer meets code. The building inspector is good at pointing out what wasn't built to code.... perhaps before he was born.

Vent over.

[cordwood]

Not a problem.

Now that I'm back to swinging a hammer for a living I'm trying to get caught up on code changes over the past too many years.  My county went from no building code or inspections just a few years ago to oppressive code extortion all in one giant step. 

I look through magazines like Dwell  or in fact many of the things here on the forum and all I can see is one code violation after another.  It's silly.  Doing renovations on houses built 20 or so years ago, when we didn't have a building department, is a problem.  Almost nothing on them would meet current code.  Adding a new porch railing with current code acceptable balusters to and old porch with some attractive but non-compliant railings creates lots of issues.  Where do we stop?  The railings don't meet code. Nor the way the entire porch is attached to the house, nor the rise/run of the existing main entry stairs...  in fact the front door no longer meets code. The building inspector is good at pointing out what wasn't built to code.... perhaps before he was born.

Vent over.

RELEARNING is ten times harder than the first time!! Now what you thought you knew is not what they want you to know and you know it worked just fine before but this is "NEW" and "IMPROVED", But you already knew that.

[John_C]

I don't have a problem relearning.  I do have a problem with the overly officious inspectors.

For example.  During an inspection of a new staircase the official points out.. "You do know that the existing railing over there doesn't meet code?"

What is the response???

"Yes, I know" implies something needs to be done about it.

"Yes, what should the owner do?"    Worse, asks him for an opinion.

"Yes, but it is grandfathered in".  Likely to raise their ire and cause them to go looking for something, anything they can red tag.

"Bite Me", or "It sure is a long way to the ground from here on the porch "  My fav's but not practical in the long run.

[MountainDon]

I can't think of a winner there.  

[John_C]

The winner is to not be there.  Let the owner deal with the scores of things in a 25+ yr. old house that are no longer in compliance.  If they become convinced something needs to be brought into compliance with current regs, then that's more work for me.  If they irritate the inspector then they have brought the additional scrutiny on themselves.  But, sometimes the owner can't be there.  New construction is almost non-existent, so they need to generate work and revenue wherever they can. 

Next best is to have a really bad cold/flu when the inspector comes.  Sniffling, sneezing and constant coughing are sure to make him quickly decide he has other jobs to visit.  Large aggressive dogs are good too. 

[firefox]

A subliminal sound generator that produces a subaudible sound that is
extremely anoying or causes headaches, along with earplugs that filter out that paticular frequency for you to wear.

[cordwood]

 BEANS!!!!!

[ScottA]

I don't have a problem relearning.  I do have a problem with the overly officious inspectors.

For example.  During an inspection of a new staircase the official points out.. "You do know that the existing railing over there doesn't meet code?"

What is the response???

"Yes, I know" implies something needs to be done about it.

"Yes, what should the owner do?"    Worse, asks him for an opinion.

"Yes, but it is grandfathered in".  Likely to raise their ire and cause them to go looking for something, anything they can red tag.

"Bite Me", or "It sure is a long way to the ground from here on the porch "  My fav's but not practical in the long run.

I usually just go with a dumb look on stuff like this.

[cordwood]

I don't have a problem relearning.  I do have a problem with the overly officious inspectors.

For example.  During an inspection of a new staircase the official points out.. "You do know that the existing railing over there doesn't meet code?"

What is the response???

"Yes, I know" implies something needs to be done about it.

"Yes, what should the owner do?"    Worse, asks him for an opinion.

"Yes, but it is grandfathered in".  Likely to raise their ire and cause them to go looking for something, anything they can red tag.

"Bite Me", or "It sure is a long way to the ground from here on the porch "  My fav's but not practical in the long run.

I quit playing the "GAME" in California in 1984 because some of the same B.S., I couldn't use my nail gun because it could over drive a nail and destroy the wood fibers plus it was way too dangerous, I couldn't use my cords anymore, Had to fix the guard on my saw, The best built Alum. ladder I ever owned was taboo, They even said I couldn't use my 32oz Vaughan frammer on the job site anymore And they wanted me to wear a hard hat, safety glasses and steel toe boots while hanging half upside nailing off floating backing in atrium 30' off the ground But now guys draw targets on plywood and have nailgun shootouts! Cycles of Circular Motion aka Getting the run around
And dogneck,...If your sparky has pulled any wire at all he will know where the holes can go and have some cool drills to put'em there!

[John_C]

I danced with them in S FL in the early 80's.  An acquaintance of mine set up a camera and recorder the electrical inspector asking for a bribe . 

Then I moved to GA and we didn't have a building department until about 5 years ago.  The current local code give the BI too much discretionary power.  Some engineers are reluctant to do work for my county.  The BI will reject things for no good reason or ask for more drawings etc.  Runs the $$$ up.

We don't really have any special building issues here.  Very low snow load, too far from the coast for hurricanes to be a real concern, not an earthquake area....  it should be a straightforward area in which to build. 

In a lot of ways I know how we got in this mess.  The porch I was working on was built 25+ years ago by a "professional" builder.  At one point he didn't have a long enough 4x4 so he just stacked one on top of the other, 5 ft. above the ground, and connected them with 2 drywall screw diagonally like you would toenail something.  I commented to the owner that it was a good thing he doesn't entertain very often.  His porch was one of those you hear about that falls to the ground with 20 or so people.  Even now the existing porch railing are a problem. The railings are 6x6 logs supported by 6x6 posts, but all that holds the posts to the porch are a couple finish nails toenailed into the porch deck.  It all looks very massive but it would be easy to push it over.  But the BI  didn't comment about the way it was attached, only that the existing balusters were a little further apart than current code.

[Billisnice]

On the outside walls, i went in from the floor up close to the studs, and filled with foam in the holes,  so not to have insulation dead spaces around the outer wall.

[JRR]

"You do know that the existing railing over there doesn't meet code?"

What is the response???

My response is a simple, uninflected "no".
  He can choose, if that means: "No, I didn't know that" or, "No, you are mistaken", or "....".