America (United States) The Land of the Free

[glenn-k]

Interesting concept - I barely heard of it before but looked it up.  I like the ideas - It's just that New Hampshire is so far away and I lack the motivation to do anything other than sit here and bellyache.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_State_Project

[Texan_lost_in_cali]

Hey your doing more than I can honestly say that I am. I cant even get a small shed on my place without the state wanting everything...

[MountainDon]

How close to the topic is this??....

A while back I read a book that I went and reccommended to darn near everyone I knew...

"What's So Great About America" by Dinesh D'Souza

Even with all the flaws this stuill is a great place to live!

[glenn-k]

and we call ourselves free...

[glenn-k]

Sorry , Mountain Don-- I want my own country.

[MountainDon]

Sorry , Mountain Don-- I want my own country.

No problem, but since I haven't been able to figure out a way to get/be my own country, this will have to do. For now.

PS: I was born in and lived in Canada for 30 years, lived on the Isle of Man for a year, in England for 2 years, spent a year traveling in about 20 other european countries. I moved to the USA in 1985. Everything all considered, I'm happiest here!

[glenn-k]

I'm happy as long as they leave me alone.

I haven't been to enough other places for long enough to know what I'd like, so I would have to say that any place that has a power structure that is higher than me would be unacceptable -- I just have to live in my own little utopia.

I know that the voices in my head aren't real, but sometimes they have some pretty good ideas.  (I don't know who that was from.)

[MountainDon]

Ya try and stay off the radar screen.  

Everywhere else has a power structure taller than here.  I read somewhere recently that the UK, London in particular, has more surveillance cameras per person/square foot, don't recall what than anywhere else. That's going some when you consider how many you see walking around the average place here.  

And we have way too many laws about can't do this, must do that......  but I'm still not gonna move..

I pretend to have my own fiefdom, if not a country. I do have locked gates, barbed wire fences and probably more than enough "posted" signs, with admonishments to "beware of dog's mean owner" plus addendums of "NO hiking, fishing hunting, skateboarding .... scattered all around the fencelines.

Just to pick one thing... the right to own firearms.... there are many other places in the world where one can nolt, or can not easily own a firearm, especially a handgun! But that's another rant altogether!!!

[glenn-k]

Sounds good, Mountain Don.  I have my signs along with the $5000 day use fee's for unwanted visitors.  Haven't tried to see how well it works yet.  I'm trying to keep from gating my road if possible - I don't want to inconvenience the people I want or don't mind coming here, --- or myself.

The crazy thing is that people in general keep asking for more laws - crying -- whining -- complaining to big brother.  

England has even put speakers on some of their cameras now -- they can yell at you if you do a no no.

[MountainDon]

I'm trying to keep from gating my road if possible - I don't want to inconvenience the people I want or don't mind coming here, --- or myself.

The crazy thing is that people in general keep asking for more laws - crying -- whining -- complaining to big brother.  

I did the gate when one weekend I found someone camping just past the posted signs. Maybe it was a particularly bad day for me, but I was a bit PO'd! Made them get up and go right then!

And you are so right.... so many people cry and whine about this 'n' that and want government to look after this or that, without even trying to rub a brain cell or two together and think about the consequences, intended or not!

One of my credos is "personal responsibility"

[bayviewps]

America . . . Where your "Free" to do as you are told!!!

[Texan_lost_in_cali]

Ok then where can we make "Atlas Shrugged" happen?

[glenn-k]

I  hadn't read it but read the info in Wikipedia.  If only group activities really were attainable.

[Amanda_931]

And if that particular orientation doesn't suit you, then there might be some Rajneeshis left in Wasco County Oregon, and somewhere there's a movement for "fundamentalist" Christians to move to South Carolina.  And I think there are a few more of those movements in parts of the country.



I do love the logo.

[glenn-k]

Still in denial?

http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index975.htm

[Amanda_931]

People keep sending me stuff about how horrible Microsoft Vista is/will be.

NSA helped Microsoft make Vista secure --Agency helped to bring OS into compliance with DOD requirements 10 Jan 2007 The U.S. agency best known for eavesdropping on telephone calls had a hand in the development of Microsoft Corp.'s Vista operating system, the software vendor confirmed yesterday.

Here's one source-- http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/01/10/HNnsamadevistasecure_1.html

Not totally sure I'd trust the Russian's take on how we are going to hell in a handbasket.

But here's an article on the U.S. Attorney's bit (I heard Gonzales on NPR yesterday and thought what he said sounded bogus):

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2007/01/court.html

In an article headlined, "Bush Removal Ended Guam Investigation," The Los Angeles times reported that "a U.S. grand jury in Guam opened an investigation of controversial lobbyist Jack Abramoff more than two years ago, but President Bush removed the supervising federal prosecutor, and the probe ended soon after." With at least six prominent federal prosecutors recently removed from office, many of them managing large scale public corruption cases, many are wondering if history is not repeating itself.

Among those fired were Carol Lam, the U.S. Attorney for San Diego, who last year won a conviction against Congressman Duke Cunningham (R-CA) in the biggest bribery conviction in history, and Paul Charlton of Arizona, whose office is investigating charges involving land deals and influence peddling against of Republican Congressman Rick Renzi (R-AZ).

[benevolance]

Well I think the main problem is that People buy land where there are problems and they expect the government to amend those problems for them...

For example...You move into an area with a lumber mill...Then you complain about the noise or the logging trucks wanting it shut down.... The thinking is that it would drive property values way up and you would make a killing

I believe that if you have issues with the mill you find another place to buy....Do the work before you buy..Buy what suits you...


We all hate the fact that immigrants come to america and make no effort to learn the laws, or the language...We resent having to listen to spanish to call about the cable bill or read spanish signs on restaurants....etc...

This is the same principle applied to land...You must become part of the community which you move to...It is not fair or reasonable to expect the community to alter their lands and lives to suit your plans...

So when Glenn says he wants to be left alone...It is valid because he moved out to the country in a remote area....

Here where we are in South Carolina...It is way out in the middle of nowhere...About 5 years ago they started building these mountainside developments called the Cliffs...Very exclusive.. half a million dollar homes and up....

The spin off from that was dozens of slightly less exclusive housing developments.. golf courses country clubs horse stables..Etc...

Taxes have gone through the roof...There are ordinances out the wazoo...They are starting to look down upon people with a tractor in the yard (nevermind this is traditional farm land) woodpiles, woodstoves, clotheslines....all frowned upon...

All the people that moved out here from the city have expected the same rules and regulations to inflate and protect their property values to follow them out here.

Enough influential people get on the local cunty and city councils and prohibitive ordinaces keep getting passed.

The same thing as Hispanics moving here and instead of becomming part of the community and learning the language...They expect us to learn their language and change for them....The new property owners are doing the exact same thing.

It used to be safe to just run away to the wilderness to excape ordinances and the demands of other property owners who are trying to artificially inflate and maintain their property values... But now there are all these movements where retirement villages and communities are built on what used to be wilderness...They target people with lots of money and they promise to change the laws of the land of the areas in which they are built

It sucks.. but this is the way things seem to be going... This leaves those of us that wish to be left alone with no place to run to....To avoid rules and regs....To avoid other people telling us what needs to be done with and on our properties....In effect our daily freedoms are being diminished because of it.

[MountainDon]

Very cogently put.   Couldn't have put it better myself. and I didn't  :'(

[glenn-k]

People keep sending me stuff about how horrible Microsoft Vista is/will be.

NSA helped Microsoft make Vista secure --Agency helped to bring OS into compliance with DOD requirements 10 Jan 2007 The U.S. agency best known for eavesdropping on telephone calls had a hand in the development of Microsoft Corp.'s Vista operating system, the software vendor confirmed yesterday.

Here's one source-- http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/01/10/HNnsamadevistasecure_1.html

Not totally sure I'd trust the Russian's take on how we are going to hell in a handbasket.

But here's an article on the U.S. Attorney's bit (I heard Gonzales on NPR yesterday and thought what he said sounded bogus):

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2007/01/court.html

In an article headlined, "Bush Removal Ended Guam Investigation," The Los Angeles times reported that "a U.S. grand jury in Guam opened an investigation of controversial lobbyist Jack Abramoff more than two years ago, but President Bush removed the supervising federal prosecutor, and the probe ended soon after." With at least six prominent federal prosecutors recently removed from office, many of them managing large scale public corruption cases, many are wondering if history is not repeating itself.

Among those fired were Carol Lam, the U.S. Attorney for San Diego, who last year won a conviction against Congressman Duke Cunningham (R-CA) in the biggest bribery conviction in history, and Paul Charlton of Arizona, whose office is investigating charges involving land deals and influence peddling against of Republican Congressman Rick Renzi (R-AZ).

Sometimes we need to look at the way the rest of the world sees us just to see ourselves.  We can easily fool ourselves - fooling the rest of the world is harder.  I have the handbasket - looks like I'm on my way.

Vista - I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.  Windows is already bad enough without government assistance.  If that is all we are offered then I will either never upgrade or go to a different operating system.  I don't need any more spooks in my computer.

Vista is a disaster. Microsoft is so desperate to get the entertainment industry locked into its platform that they'll destroy themselves to get there.

http://www.boingboing.net/2007/01/13/vista_suicide_note_r.html

[benevolance]

Don

I have never told anyone else what they should do on their own land...It is none of my business as long as I am not at risk of being hurt on my land...

I expect the same privacy on my land...For nobody else to come onto it and make demands of me about my land for their benefit...

I promise not to blow them up....And they should promise to stay the hell off my land unless invited...

It seems pretty simple...But this is not the way of the world any longer.

Here in Carolina and other warmer climates the Government does not want traditional land usage...

Here a generation ago in the country taxes were non existent...and. a lot of people had orchards in their back yards and they all raised hogs...Meaning that the majority of their food was grown or raised on their own land...

They did not in turn have to work a full time high paying job...And thus paid out no Income taxes...

Self sufficient is a nasty nasty word for the government...We need to get a regular job so they can take 30-40% of the money earned off the top....And then pay them another 5-10% state stax when we buy goods that we used to make ourselves at home.

[Sassy]

Benevolance - check this out...

We The People

Within months, in all probability just before the Easter break, the hot topic of the day in every single law school in America will be the decision by the U.S. Court of Appeals in our case entitled, We The People v. The  U.S. Government.

Given the enormous and far-reaching implications of this decision, either in favor of the People or against them, law school professors everywhere will be anxious to analyze and "mine" the decision, discussing it in their faculty and academic forums and bringing it the attention of the young minds that fill their classrooms. Many will likely rush to further explore the gravity of the ruling and publish articles in Law Review journals.  

It will be an exciting time, indeed -- especially for the ordinary non-aligned citizen taxpayers of this great Country.

The excitement will permeate Give Me Liberty 2007, our three-day conference scheduled for March 29-31.  

[highlight]Think about it. For the first time in the entire history of our nation -- since the adoption of our Bill of Rights in 1791-- a Court is about to declare the legal meaning of one of the five individual Rights guaranteed by the First Amendment. [/highlight]

[highlight]Not just any Right, but the mother of all Rights -- the Right that caps all the others, the so-called "Capstone Right."

The First Amendment is, undoubtedly, the most important sentence in the entire Constitution. It reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the Right of the People peaceably to assemble, and to Petition the government for a Redress of Grievances." [/highlight]

[size=12]Within the meaning of the last ten words of the First Amendment is the Right of each individual (and the minority) to hold government accountable to each and every provision of the Constitution, including all the other enumerated and un-enumerated Rights. This is why the Petition Clause is called the "Capstone Right."  [/size]

What good would it do to design and adopt a Constitution based on popular sovereignty that guaranteed individual, un-alienable Rights, if the individual himself had not the power to prevent the Government from violating those Rights, non-violently?  

Given the historical evidentiary documentation regarding the Right of Petition and the common sense design of our Constitution, we believe the Court has no choice but to declare that when the Government violates the Constitution, the People have the Right to Petition the Government for a Redress of Grievances, the Government has an obligation to respond to the Petitions, and the People have the Right to withdraw their financial support from the Government until their Grievances are Redressed.  

Go to the link above to read the rest of the article...

[benevolance]

Sassy

This is great stuff...And I used to believe that people with legal and moral superiority on their side would always come out ahead.

We both know that is not enough any more. That big brother and his billionaire friends get what they want far too often at the expense of our rights and freedoms.

If and when it happens I would dance naked in the streets...But I just cannot allow myself to believe that they will win...

Much like the Soldier that refused to fight in Iraq because he said the  war was illegal

The military judge sidestepped his objection and found him guilty... Saying something to the efect that it was not upto him to determine whether or not it was illegal...

When we all know that the geneva convention is being violated with the war...That if brough to trial in the world court the military action would be a violation of international law....

The Judge said that this was a political issue and the charges brought against the soldier were a criminal issue...What a crock of Baloney!!!!!!!!

He just sidestepped the issue

I hope the soldier appeals and wins...That judge needs to be hung by his testicles

as do many judges...but I have little hope left in me that the small guy who shields himself in the law will be protected

[Sassy]

One of the problems with the majority of the people in our country is that [highlight]they don't know the laws[/highlight] - my hope is that, in putting the info out, more people will stand up - it's just like what Glenn has often said - ya gotta know the laws & regulations in order to stand up to a lot of the bullies who want to play a power trip on you.

It may be too late, but I'm not going to give up without a fight & without telling others what's happening to our country.  Too many are too comfortable to fight the status quo... and that is what is leading to our nation's downfall - indifference & the "take care of me" attitude...   :-/  :'(

I guess I may get to know the inside of one of the internment camps they're preparing for "patriots" ...  :-/

It's sad that Lt. Watada can't go with his conscience in refusing to go back to Iraq - or the couple in New Hampshire, I think, who were asking the same question about the income tax "show me the law" &  refused to pay for 12 years... he is holed up in his house right now stating he will fight to the death, while she (a dentist) has surrendered & is looking at millions of $$$ in fines & back taxes, losing her business & going to prison.  If we think we are contributing to our nation's infrastructure when we pay taxes, think again - we are barely even making a dent on the interest we are paying the unconstitutional Federal Reserve, a private central bank...  :-/  that's where the IRS sends our taxes...
As trial goes on he hunkers down

Anyway, I've tried to stay away from the political   but am really interested to see the outcome of the hearing between the United States Gov't & We The People...

[glenn-k]

Revelations on how we are guided.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2007/290107rockefellergoal.htm

[Amanda_931]

Chalmers Johnson has a piece in tomdispatch in which he plugs all his books, especially the new one, Nemesis--not quite out yet.  But the piece is worth reading.

He talks empire and democracy, how they are not compatible, quoting Anatole Lieven (first quote).  His conclusion (2nd quote) is not particularly hopeful.

Although, unlike ancient Rome, the British empire did manage, in a kind of zig-zag way, to dismantle itself.

http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=160594

"U.S. global power, as presently conceived by the overwhelming majority of the U.S. establishment, is unsustainable. . . The empire can no longer raise enough taxes or soldiers, it is increasingly indebted, and key vassal states are no longer reliable. . . The result is that the empire can no longer pay for enough of the professional troops it needs to fulfill its self-assumed imperial tasks."

So my own hope is that -- if the American people do not find a way to choose democracy over empire -- at least our imperial venture will end not with a nuclear bang but a financial whimper. From the present vantage point, it certainly seems a daunting challenge for any President (or Congress) from either party even to begin the task of dismantling the military-industrial complex, ending the pall of "national security" secrecy and the "black budgets" that make public oversight of what our government does impossible, and bringing the president's secret army, the CIA, under democratic control. It's evident that Nemesis -- in Greek mythology the goddess of vengeance, the punisher of hubris and arrogance -- is already a visitor in our country, simply biding her time before she makes her presence known.

I finally got a copy of George Monbiot's Heat.  It's my not terribly pleasant bedtime reading.  But at least he's a bit more positive about that vision of the future.