Grey Water ?

[josiahmac]

Let me start by introducing myself. Ive been looking around the forum awhile and just got a chance to register. I have enjoyed some of the great small builds ive seen so far. I am a carpenter with 18 years in the trade and a love for small simple homes. I live in the beautiful White mountains of NH and will be building a home for my family in Effingham NH, just got land last month so just getting going. I plan on using a Grey Water system and composting toilets. My local code officer is on board with my plan but would like me to do the leg work to see if NH approves of the system. So if anyone hear has info on the NH codes for Grey Water or knows who to talk to it would be great. Ive got some emails out to the state know but that can be slow.

Thank You and I look forward to sharing my build with the forum

[Squirl]

I am building a composting toilet and greywater system in NY. The regulations for them are covered in the NY state department of health website. In many states that I know of, the septic laws are in the health code. It would be a good place to start.

http://des.nh.gov/organization/divisions/water/ssb/index.htm
http://des.nh.gov/organization/commissioner/pip/forms/ssb/documents/ww_disposal_manual.pdf

[mldrenen]

Per NH DES website:

On April 10, 2009, two plumbing-related code amendments were approved by the State of New Hampshire Building Code Review Board. They are the adoption of: Appendix C Gray Water Recycling Systems of the 2006 International Plumbing Code of New Hampshire. Appendix O Gray Water Recycling Systems of the 2006 International Residential Code for One- and Two- Family Dwellings of New Hampshire. Please check with your local code enforcement office regarding permits, inspections and local code requirements. NOTE: A permit is required by the State of New Hampshire Department of Environmental Services (DES) to discharge gray water in or onto the ground from a Subsurface Landscape Irrigation System. Contact DES at 603-271-3503 for information.

http://www.nh.gov/safety/boardsandcommissions/bldgcode/documents/exhibit53.pdf

[josiahmac]

 Its funny you read certain things that would make you believe that NH is willing to work with people on a design that they would approve. I spent a hour on the phone with a women from DES today that all but said its not going to happen. Oh well Ill keep trying. One would think that with all the information there is on Grey Water systems it would be easy to convince people that they are a good thing.

[MountainDon]

You should pursue this I believe. IIRC, hpinson ran into a similar thing here in NM when he called the NM Environment Dept to ask about getting a permit for an outhouse. I believe he was first told no way. However, the information was available online that it was possible. A second conversation with a different person resulted in a permit being sold to him.  (I think I have the story right).

[mldrenen]

if you follow the links provided by squirl and i, you can see that it is clearly code approved and legal. 

i'm with mountaindon, pursue this. 

[hpinson]

Yes, that's right Don. My first informal conversation with NMED was that an outhouse was not allowed. I did some research, and found that by statute it was in fact allowed, given that certain conditions be met. A second call, with person who, as luck would have it, was more knowledgable, and actually interested, followed up by a positive and not pushy letter on my part quoting the statute, and why I met the conditions, resulted in a positive outcome.  If the law supports what you are trying to do, quote chapter and verse, and they are obligated to follow the law. However the person you are dealing with may not be aware of the law, especally if it is a recent change, and you may have to be firm in pointing it out, or go sideways or higher up the command chain.  My understanding is that a lot of changes in greywater legislation are very recent, and not part of the day-to-day experience and workload of the typical government environmental tech worker.

However, in New Mexico, certain types of black and greywater disposal are not allowed by statute (in answer to some very real problems with waste disposal in the colonias).  Population densities are also very different in New Mexico and Southern New England. Outhouses on Plum Island in Massachusetts were a huge threat to drinking water wells which were in immediate proximity for example.  Wells and town water supplies tend to be shallow there, easily contaminated-- you can see that in all the wellhead and watershed protection programs in that area of the country.

Some enterprising person could probably work to change NH laws applying to composting toilets and put in place some sensible "green" standards-- in fact that is just how the greywater statuates were changed over the last few years in New Mexico and Arizona.

Also, New Mexico has a category of solid/liquid waste disposal systems classified as "experimental"and perhaps New Hamphire has some similar list of systems that they are willing to consider.

I just looked over those links and the grey water amendment (I assume it was adopted?).  I saw mention of greywater systems, but no mention of composting toilets. Did I miss that? Sometimes certain commercial composting toilets are allowed (Sun Mar, Envirolet, Biolet, etc) but it seems rare that any kind of "Humanure" system as described by Jenkins would be legal (despite it being simpler and working better at a small scall in cold enviroments than the commercial systems IMO).  I'll go out on a limb and bet that new outhouses are flat-out illegal in New Hampshire now... unless you are Appalachian Mountain Club or U.S. Forest Service ;o)  Certainly many still exist in camps. But it sounds like greywater disposal is doable and commercial composting toilets may be.

[Squirl]

I would also pursue it.  There is an old saying.  "Someone is always willing to take away your rights if you aren't willing to stand up for them."

[cbc58]

I also own land in NH and have tried to figure out how to put in a lower cost septic/grey water system, but was told by the DES that any gray water system would have to be designed, approved and constructed to nearly the same constraints as a septic - with the cost being similar.  Any time you have running water you need an approved system.  The alternative is a composting toilet and no running water - and they allow you (with approval) to put in a pit with gravel to pour used non-greasy gray water into.  At least that's what I was told about a year ago.  That's the state regulations and then you have to get by town regs.

Someone on here built a nice small cabin in NH and created their own home-made septic system and I was looking forward to do something similar until I found out they were not to code.   You can carry water in, pump it from a hand-well, get it from a cistern or collection barrel - and then use it - but from what I am told in NH you have to have a formal system to handle gray water or septic.  And it can be expensive - ours is estimated at 14k which is one of the reasons we haven't built yet.

[Squirl]

Yes, that is a common misconception with gray water disposal.

1. There is a lot of it.  NY code allows for a septic field reduction size from 150 gallons per day to 75 gallons per day per bedroom.  So that is 2 low flow 10 minute showers + dishes + bathroom sink and maybe 1 load of laundry.  If you take a long shower or have some guests over, there is a lot of water to dispose of.

2. People still wash their behinds and a lot of other things down the drain (raw or rotten food, dirty diapers) that officials want to assure are not surface runoff.

I still have to put in a septic field for my grey water system, just smaller and an engineer and building inspector allowed me to skip the septic tank part.  If my land drained at all, I would have been allowed to put in a seepage pit for the grey water, but it still would have to have been sized to handle the water load to drain subsurface.

[Dave Sparks]

I was told by the building department I could build a solar house but could not live in it.
Consider some of your sources as ignorant!

[rick91351]

I was told by the building department I could build a solar house but could not live in it.
Consider some of your sources as ignorant!

  never the government types....   


       

[josiahmac]

 Im pretty sure the lady I spoke with at DES had a personal dislike for any alternative systems or just didnt want to deal with it. I tried to get her to understand that I was not trying to avoid a septic for cost reasons, this is something i believe like a lot of others is a better system when used properly. I am going to try and meet with someone at the forest conservation about there system and then meet with the company that did there system. That should give me some more steam to move forward. I have some time off the next couple of weeks so ill be driving the state crazy.

[hpinson]

Are there any model greywater systems that the state looks to as examples?

[josiahmac]

Not that she was aware of. There is a company Clivus out of Mass that was the closest to getting approval but again I dont think she wanted to help me. I am hoping to talk to them this week. 

[cbc58]

The govt. can get away with having alternative systems because... well... they are the govt.  You might also check with a mfg. products for alternative systems in NH.  Their products are designed to make leach fields smaller to reduce the amount of sand / material needed.

Here is their site:   http://presbyeco.com/