Started by NathanS, January 23, 2020, 12:40:45 PM
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Quote from: NathanS on January 26, 2020, 07:35:01 PM2) If I use 2x12 joists I can stuff R-38 insulation in between, put plywood down on top and drywall the ceiling and have my storage and insulation done with, simple and easy
Quote from: MountainDon on January 26, 2020, 09:08:54 PMNathan, that caught my eye. IF, by "stuff" you mean to compress the std R-38 fiberglass batts to fit in a 2x12 space, you are losing R-value. You don't lose a lot on R-38 with 2x12, but there is a small loss. There are charts a search will find. We have a 20 x 24 garage turned shop and I wish it was larger, but if it was I might still want more floor space. However, I definitely would like a 9 or 10-foot ceiling height. That comes from handling lumber for carpentry, but would also be better for lifting engines out of a vehicle. I'm not sold on using an upper floor for storage though. We have a single 16' door in the 20' wall. I would like a 24 wide wall with two 9 foot doors much better.
Quote from: GaryT on January 27, 2020, 07:55:51 AMI echo everyone's comments regarding size...my shop is only 20X30 and if it was 30X40 it would still be too small. I don't think I've ever met anyone who built smallish, and never wished they had gone bigger. Heck, even the 10X14 garden shed I built is way to small for us!Gary
Quote from: NathanS on January 27, 2020, 10:02:10 AMDo you specifically wish you had more wide open space? What if I did a 20x30 main area, and then with 10' ceilings I would have clearance for lean-to wings that are around 12' wide. I could fully enclose one of them, uninsulated, and that would give me plenty of equipment type storage opening up more insulated workspace. A second wing would also mean both cars could be protected from snow without even needing to use the main area.
Quote from: GaryT on January 27, 2020, 10:54:20 AM"Do you specifically wish you had more wide open space? What if I did a 20x30 main area, and then with 10' ceilings I would have clearance for lean-to wings that are around 12' wide. I could fully enclose one of them, uninsulated, and that would give me plenty of equipment type storage opening up more insulated workspace. A second wing would also mean both cars could be protected from snow without even needing to use the main area."I very definately wish I had more than the 20X30 open space. I have a large assembly table in the middle of my shop which also serves as outfeed for table saw, along one wall is a combination Radial Arm and 12" compound slider bench. Then there's a joiner, a planer, a wall full of shelves for power/hand tools, paints, glues, you name it. there's also a band saw. and a floor drill press. And I have double doors to the outside world on one end. No space for extra lumber, my framing/matting supplies are covered in dust, and on and on it goes. Think also about all the liquids you want to keep from freezing. And the sheer weight of so many stationary power tools that makes moving them around a pain, even when they're on casters.Having said all that....you either have a garage or a shop. Tough to combine them both in one building. Now, if you REALLY want to see some shops and garages, go here:https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/Good luck with the project, Nathan (and make sure you have those 9' ceilings!)Gary
Quote from: jsahara24 on January 27, 2020, 11:45:45 AMI have a 20x30 pole barn at my cabin. It has a post in the middle of each "bay", so when you drive in the garage door there is a post on either side of your vehicle. I don't use it for working on vehicles, but do use it for working on snowmobiles/atvs/boats/etc. By the time I added stairs to the loft, a wood stove, workbenches, etc. i'm not sure that I could get even get a vehicle in there beyond my little car. I am looking ato adding a lean too off the back to store my toys and keep the barn open for bringing in things to work on and hanging out. Id say minimum depth is 24' if you want vehicles in there to work on, no posts in the middle and 9' minimum ceiling height. If you have the lean to you describe that would help for sure. I am now planning a pole barn for my house and i'm thinking 30x40 with lean to's on both sides. Give me room to store my toys on the sides and leave the barn open for projects. Here is a pic of a 20x30. Good luck!
Quote from: NathanS on January 27, 2020, 12:16:18 PMI know pole barns are a pretty popular choice, my main concern with that is the severity of our winters would making heating it with a woodstove very difficult. Also I would say pole structures on my soil type tend to heave over the years.Actually I am not really familiar with the permitting process for a pole barn, I am guessing you buy a kit with an engineers stamp on it?
Quote from: jsahara24 on January 27, 2020, 01:00:06 PMI'm up on the Tug Hill not too far from you so I understand your winter heating concerns. I have the typical pole barn construction, 6x6 posts every 10' with 1x4s connecting them every 18" up the sides. I have the roof insulated, and the second floor ceiling insulated. In the winter I have plywood installed to block off the stairs and keep the heat downstairs. The walls have 1" foam between the 1x4s so certainly less than ideal. When its really cold I use a propane torpedo heater to bring it up to temp and then the wood stove will generally maintain the heat in the 60s. When its moderate (32*) the wood stove can handle it on its own as long as you get it going a couple hours before you intend to work out there. I am thinking the best way to insulate a pole barn is like you did on your house, using foam on the outside then siding.....I currently just have t1-11 on my barn that is starting to show its age, so i'm thinking about going that route and then do a board and batten or horizontal lap siding. We have a lot of amish in my area and they sell wood very cheap. As for permitting i'm not sure, things are pretty lax up my way. If you are under 1500 sf you don't need engineered drawings.
Quote from: GaryT on January 27, 2020, 01:28:15 PMAh, the Tug Hill Plateau! I lived there for 10 years, near the wildlife management area where I did the research for my PhD. built this garage myself, with dog kennels (inside and outside runs) for my english setter birddogs. It was insulated, but not heated. built really good dog houses inside for each pooch that kept them warm to 30 below (I actually checked that several times). It was 24 X 36, and I'd do that one again! Sorry for the slight hijack, Nathan.Gary
Quote from: Don_P on January 27, 2020, 10:01:01 PMI think you are limiting the possible widths of the lean to's by only connecting them to the top plate of the wall. They can land on the roof of the main structure if needed to gain more height for increased width. Or to put it another way plate height does not have to dictate shed width.
Quote from: Don_P on January 30, 2020, 09:43:54 AMSorry to be slow to respond... but I passed the class A cdl test yesterday, woohoo! Our toys have gotten too big to pull behind pickups. My partner tested the day before and was going to drive the 26,000 lb Lull down the road about 12 miles to a job, we have the licenses to drive big trucks with trailers but don't own one yet. Anyway, he made it about 2 miles before meeting a deputy who was nice enough to say "I don't think so. Go back home".Anyway, here's how I look at the problem when possible. I offset the shed rafters just to the side of the main common rafters, install a ledger up on the roof for the shed rafters to land on, this may be quite wide or 2 boards for that long angle cut. (Mentally, load travels at up to a 45 degree angle, so you are engineeringwise still on top of the common) Then run "kickers", short studs vertically from the wall plate up to the underside of the shed rafters, Nail to the kicker to the side of the commons. Run another kicker from alongside of the shed rafter to the top of the common, nail everything together, it's all well woven then. Face this cripple wall with ply for lateral stability. The shed rafters are now cantilevered over the cripple wall and are simply resting on the roof. At a point you would need to calculate this, thus far I have not... but we can for fun if you would like, there is sliding snow at that transition which affects you more. That point loaded canti load on the main common is not zero.
Quoteinstall a ledger up on the roof for the shed rafters to land on, this may be quite wide or 2 boards for that long angle cut.
QuoteRun another kicker from alongside of the shed rafter to the top of the common