I have an idea

[Robert_Flowers]

I need a bigger workshop mine's 10x16 now i would like at least 16x24 with a 4x16 lumber storage bump out on one end lumber storage is my bigest trouble.
So here's my idea my mailbox is made out of 4" thin wall pvc pipe filled with concrete and rebar. The mail box post has been up for 14 years no signs of cracks or deteration.

Why can't i dig a hole 3' deep pour a 12" footer  put the pipe on top of the footer with rebar sticking up run rebar all the way thru to the top to a 4" bracket  fill with concete and put J bolts every 4' sticking out one side of the pipe to bolt 2x4 purlins on for closing in the walls.

The pipe/post will only support the roof a 4/12 or 6/12 pitch no snow load down here and frost is 6"  i would put pipe 8'oc. on the outside wall clear floorspace a slab or brick on sandbed floor.

Stupid,Brillant what do y'all thank?

robert

[glenn-k]

There are a million ways to do things, Robert - it sounds like it would work to me - similar to buildings with concrete columns on larger buildings.  Kind of like an extended Big Foot footing.

I would suggest bending hooks on your vertical rebars and including them in your footer.  4 inch pipe may be a bit tight getting concrete into past rebar and ties - vibrating, tapping, rodding, smaller aggregate etc. should help.  Concrete gets most of it's strength in the first 7 days - I wouldn't apply a load to it much sooner than that - the first couple days it is pretty weak. All columns would have to be braced until cured.  

No guarantees here and If you feel you should check with a local professional, by all means do so.  This would not be standard framiing so would require an engineer in a permit situation.

It seems like doing conventional framing on top of concrete footings built as you suggest may be easier - but then again --consider the source-- I put my house in the ground-- what do I know?

[JRR]

Glenn is correct, you may need some professional engineering aid to make sure the design is sound.

A plastic pipe can be used in the "slip form" fashion.  This is especially useful when pouring small diameter posts.

Imagine that you are going to pour approx a quarter of the post length at a time.  The plastic pipe should be a few inches longer than this ... and split down the full length on one side.  A variation is to split the pipe to within inches of one end ... this end now becomes the "top".

Use several hose clamps to keep the split pipe from losing shape during a pour.  After intial curing, the clamps are loosened and the pipe-form slipped upwards to a new height and reclamped... then repeat, repeat, etc.

[glenn-k]

Great information, JRR.  I love ideas like that -- you're another Ken Kern.

[Robert_Flowers]

Glenn: permit situation

What permit? you sound like my wife

Let me tell you a story when i build my house i got a permit it took 3 years to get it done enough to get a final inspection when the NEW Inspector came out the first thing out of his mouth was you got trouble you don't have a permit so i walked in the house reached in the window and got my permit handed it to him he told his partner you got bookeeping trouble down there  walked in the livingroom looked left then right said looks good and left . Got a call from the county asking me to send them a copy of my permit i told them i did not have time to do there job.

I did pay for a permit for my  shop i have now payed 30.00 way told by the girl at the county they no longer give out permit that the inspector had to come out an nail it on a tree by the driveway. wlee five years later i'm still waiting for him to come out! A year later the tax man showed up wanting to look at my new shop he got one foot out of his truck an i lit in to him WHAT SHOP I NEVER GOT MY PERMIT ,WHAT THE
(cuss cuss cuss) ARE YOU PEOPLE DOING DOWN THERE (cuss cuss cuss) by this time he was back in his truck sorry i'll see whats going on sorry you had trouble an backout so fast an has never came back in more than 8 years.

JRR:professional engineering

We don't need not sticking professional engineering   this is a fly by the seat of your pants building.

My dad could build anything he build shops,barns,sheds out of old pallets and shipping crates they lasted for years
My father -in-law has ashop and a barn build out of landscape timber  post and pallet not a plumb post anywere and he followed the land he put the post a foot in the ground no matter if it was on a rise or a dip  it has stood for years.

This shop will be plumb square level and build right it just needs to be build over time and the pipe/concrete post can stand for a year in the weather and not have any trouble that is one reason and low cost is another but the main reason is i like to do wreid and crazy things.

Also i had not though about slip form i was goting to leave the pipe on i mite try that.

This is why i like this site you can share crazy ideas and learn new things to try any have fun joking around.

Robert

[glenn-k]

I love your attitude, Robert -- I just have to act like that in case any real people are watching.  Disclaimers are a necessity in this sue happy world -thanks to the liars lawyers - little spelling problem -spell checker caught it--

Sounds like you think like me -- your ass-essor left because he has no legal right on your property without a warrant specifying what he is there for - I doubt he can come up with that, besides you probably scared the crap out of him.

Building department is similar - you give them permission to set foot on your land when you sign your permit.  The constitutional No Tresspassing Sign with the $5000 day use fee is always a fun thing to play with --once again - no guarantees and your results may vary.  Who is unlawful here--- laws and rules that conflict with the Constitution (You know -- that G D piece of paper (thanks GWB) that states cannot legally write conflicting  laws against)  or a man taking care of and providing for his family in accordance with the freedoms given him by the Constitution.

[harry51]

Glenn, you know I am on the same page with you on the government, but I think it is worth pointing out that our rights are not given by the Constitution, and the term "Constitutional rights" is something of a misnomer.

The Founders believed in the concept of God-given, or natural rights, and created a government designed to protect those natural rights. They listed some of those rights in the first eight Amendments to the Constitution, and the Ninth Amendment reads: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."  So, in the Founder's view, the Constitution does not pretend to list all our rights, but it tasks the government with guaranteeing those rights to all of us. Maybe the term "Constitutionally guaranteed rights" would be more correct.

What the government giveth, the government can taketh away. Since the source of our rights is NOT the government, it cannot rightly take them away except in certain very narrowly defined circumstances after judicial action.

The sad news is that we have failed to be eternally vigilant, and through ignorance, laziness, greed, and fear, we have allowed our rights to be conditioned, limited, and usurped by the government, when the original intent was to limit the government so as to prevent it from usurping the natural rights, prerogatives, and sovereignty of its citizens. It's a damn shame, and I hope it's not too late for people to wake up.  We have to assert our rights, and defend them. A wise man once said "A right undefended is a right conceded."  We're at the point now where we have to choose our battles carefully, and do our homework assidously.

[peg_688]

Robert I like your attutude as well . I'd just say that the wood , even from crates , or what ever salvage your Pop, and others found , scronged up was MTL better than the standard SPF , ya right one fir stud to two hundred spruce , and 299 pine in a sling   , Small rant    But the wood they came up with More Than Likey , was just better , lasted longer / spaned longer / rotted slower etc .

 Some pallet lumber might be "ok " stock but MTL it's some quick grown wide ringed crap .

 Your pipe / post footing idea might work , but keep any store bought lumber [highlight]OFF THE GROUND ,[/highlight] unless PT and that's still a risk IMO It's mostly pine from what I understand so it will rot , I'm replacing 20 year old fence post rotted off at GND level , some lasted only ten years    I have 6 TK Cedar post around the hot tub area they are 11 years old  , testing , testing .  

 We don't need no stinkin permits or badgers   PEG

[glenn-k]

Thanks for the clarification, Harry-- I knew there was something more to it - I tend to oversimplify it to Constitutional rights.  I have to re-read this stuff every so often and each time a little more sinks in - I guess I just know enough to be dangerous--

This is a subject that deserves a lot more study at least by me. :-/

[peg_688]

 Thanks  I guess I just know enough to be dangerous--

 

 Ya think   PEG

[jraabe]

Robert and JRR:

I think the plastic pipe idea for the pier is a good one. Using it as a slip form option is brilliant. I would use at least a 6" dia. pipe for short piers and 8" for taller ones. The footer can be sized for the soil bearing.

[harry51]

[highlight]I have to re-read this stuff every so often and each time a little more sinks in - I guess I just know enough to be dangerous--

This is a subject that deserves a lot more study at least by me. :-/

[/highlight]


Me too!

[Robert_Flowers]

Glenn  the main thing that ticks me off is most building Inspector have never build anything and don't know crap. The main reason for my final inspection was to make sure the wiring was done right he never looked at any wiring he was too busy looking around to see if i had build anything else.
I thank building permits are a scam, people thank that a house that has pass all the inspections is build right and safe. I have done everything in constuction but lay carpet and run hvac, i have build houses in Ohio were if it was too muddy the inspector would stand in the road an look at the house an said looks good and had shoes so polish they looked like a mirror. then had a Heath Inspector come out when we just started digging a septic system said it looks good and then went inside the house to look around an talk to the home owner i was triming out the garage he as bobby the owner if he was going to have a washer bobby said yes  well the Heath Inspector you know a washer is not good for a septic system while you got a backhoe out here you should get them to dig you a dry well a run the washer to it. true a washer in not good on a septic system but a dry well is ILEGAL in the state of Georgia. How much do you want to bet if bobby had done a dry well that the Heath Inspector would come out the next year on a complaint and find an   ILEGAL dry well .

I started building when i was 16 untili was 32 when i tore my back up helping a buddy move i have only met one great building Inspector Tommy Portavent he works for bibb county in Georgia he is aways a professional if something is not right he will tell you no attutude he should give the class on how to be a building Inspector.

I downloaded The constitutional No Tresspassing Sign with the $5000 day use fee you posted i am going to laminate a bunch an put them every 100 feet around the land.

Peg i agree most lumber today is not better than firewood. My dad worked at Robin Air Force Base and on wednesdays we would go to the base dump an get a truch load of plywood and lumber for $5.00 tack it home my job was to pull nails and straighten them on a railroad iron.

If anybody has  Rec  warehouse near them see if you can get there pallets the ones the hot tubs come on is about 6'x8'  has
6-8'2x4 and 14 1x4's  my father in law gets them for free.

[highlight]John: I think the plastic pipe idea for the pier is a good one[/highlight].

Thanks  and its a lot cheaper too. a 8"x4' sono tube at lowes is $8.00 a 4" x10' pvc pipe is $4.76

The reason i need a new shop is because of a friend at work Willie Underwood  :'(
Willie had a heartattack christmas eve an passed away everybody signed willie's vest an i build a display case for the vest an we gave it to his family. now i have been asked to build 2 more cases and today got ask to build a coffee table and a set of end tables.

Willie was only 39 i'm 40 you never know when its your time so everybody take care of yourself an tell somebody that you love them like i tell cindy every nght.

Robert

sorry for the long letter just had to vent

[glenn-k]

I agree Robert -- first thing is collect the fees then we'll see what quality inspector shows up.  Some are nice, knowledgable and helpful, others are business failures who took the job for the welfare and are wanting to take all they can down with them.  Best way to deal with them though is to always start out assuming they are nice and are there to help you.  

One of the orneriest inspectors  I ever had was an old fellow who came back out of retirement to inspect because he loved to hassle people.  Obviously while he was retired he couldn't even stand himself.

No problem about the rant, Robert.  I do it once in a while myself.

[JRR]

Glenn and John, thanks for the kudos on the slip forming with plastic pipe.  As I've said before, I may just be an (idea) thief ... but I try to add a little of my own.

My wife's nephew has an interesting work history.  He began as a carpenter, soon was a framing contractor who teamed with local group of architects to design and build high-end custom homes.  He's now moved on to be a job superintendent for-hire on large commercial works.  

But he misses home building and still dabbles in it.  I've never seen his work in the flesh, but at family gatherings he and I trade job stories (mostly his) and he brings along interesting photos.  One of his trade marks was impressive stone columns ... along with regular poured concrete columns.  And for these columns, he used different diameter slip forms made from Sonotubes.

Let my try to describe how he makes the slip forms, which are usually 4', or less, long for stone work:

1. Select a pt 2x4 4' long to match length of Sonotube.  (A 2x6 may work best on larger diameter Sonotubes.)

2. Drill from side to side of the 2x's holes 5/16" or 3/8" dia.  To keep the holes centered thru the 1 1/2" stock, first it may be better to use a drill press and drill pilot thru-holes.  Holes should be on centers of 8" or so.

3. Using construction grade cement, glue the 2x to the outside of the Sonotube.  To make sure the 2x is centered well, it may work better to stand the tube on end and use a carpenter's level to assure the 2x is plumb.  (He has his favorite glue that he swears by.  Not available at the big box stores.  He gave me a tube to try ... if I can now find it, I will edit/add the brand name.  I like the "PL" brand from Home Depot)

4. After the glue has dried, reinforce the glue joint with 1 1/2" decking screws from inside the tube.

5. Now carefully saw split the 2x along its centerline  ... sawing thru 2x and tube wall together.  Apply roofing cement/sealer to the cut tube walls for some protection against water intrusion.

6. Install (5/16" or 3/8") bolts fashioned from all-tread rod, washers, and wing-nuts.

I hope this will give you at least a working idea of how to make the slip form.  (I've never made one myself ...not exactly this way ... maybe on the next project.)  

Stone and rebar are mortared together inside the form.  The form is "slipped" about 2' each time.  The forms are re-usable many times.  

[glenn-k]

As I've said before, I may just be an (idea) thief ... but I try to add a little of my own.

Or maybe a wise elder passing information on to future generations.

As long as this data is preserved, your words and knowledge may become immortal.