SIPS Question

[Daddymem]

Ok, I read the propaganda from the SIPS side and they say 3% more cost than stick built.  I bring it up with my contractor and he says 20% more than stick built and that SIPS offer no more value "with today's supplies it is really all about the windows for energy savings."  If he wasn't actually building a SIPS house right now, I'd question his stance a little more, but it seems he has experience.  Can anyone here add anything from experience?

Also I have read that 2x4 with exterior foam insulation will beat out 2x6 construction in costs and energy savings.  Any opinions on this?

I guess the important things to us are the "deltas".  I mean if something costs more but is worth it, we'll spend more.  But we can't afford to spend more to be progressive in our construction. For example 3% would be $4k more on our house, but 20% would be $27k more on our house.  Recouping $4k in savings due to energy efficiency would occur waaaaay before $27k.  

For reference the house we are working towards:
http://www.jshow.com/y2k/listings/57.html

[Bart_Cubbins]

Well I don't have experience yet, but I will be using SIPs. Energy effeciency was a part of that decision but it wasn't the only factor. If you really want to understand the trade-offs, you'll have to run some heat loss calculations. Here are a couple of spreadsheets that will help with that (Excel only I'm afraid)...

http://www.energymatters.org/NEWCODEEnergycalc.xls
http://www.pprbd.org/plancheck/heat_loss.html

For what it's worth, I think the two storey would be an easy SIP build. A crane or Lull could set the walls and roof trusses in couple days.

[Daddymem]

For what it's worth, I think the two storey would be an easy SIP build. A crane or Lull could set the walls and roof trusses in couple days.

See that's what I thought too...it is just a big box so I figured it would be a snap.  Maybe I'll get the plans to a SIPS place to price out and show him that.  At the very least we would like SIPS roof with all the snow we get here.  And I'm very fluent in Excel, thanks!

[jraabe]

It will likely be best to take the plans to get a real world delivered and shelled in price for SIPS vs a good stick framed energy package. Not only does the complexity of the plan make a difference but the location of the plant and the building site characteristics for the crane, etc.

My "poor man's SIPS" detail is 2x4 wall framing with 2" of foam insulation on the interior side. This will approach the SIPS insulation and airsealing levels. With an experienced crew this can be done with just about any plan or site for less than a delivered SIP package.

However, many people will choose the SIP supplier and their crew as it is simpler from a planning and construction point of view since they will deal with only one company and they don't have to interview builders.

[Daddymem]

My "poor man's SIPS" detail is 2x4 wall framing with 2" of foam insulation on the interior side. This will approach the SIPS insulation and airsealing levels. With an experienced crew this can be done with just about any plan or site for less than a delivered SIP package.

On the inside?  As in behind the drywall but in front of the studs?  Details anywhere?  All I've seen is the foam on the exterior of 2x4 construction.  

[Daddymem]

Never mind, I found it John.  I was looking for poor man's SIPS not "Superinsulation Techniques" What is the difference between puting the foam inside instead of outside?  Any "by the foot" estimates versus 2x6 higher insulated stick built?

[spinnm]

I love to check out new things.  Well, guess SIPS aren't new, but they're not common.  Have you checked out SIPweb?

I keep getting the same thing proved to me over and over.  Trying to do anything that deviates the slightest from the local norm is soooo hard unless you're prepared to DIY.

SIPS
If you're close to the factory, that's good.  Maybe the 3% was a materials to materials comparison.

If you can locate a contractor that specializes, that's good.  He'll be faster at doing it and better at estimating.  Perhaps your contractor is getting burned on the one he's building now.  Thus, the 20% thing.  Maybe he's just not having any fun and wants to discourage you.  That said, the contractor in Abq that only builds SIPS wanted a premium because of the mystique.

If you can rig up some sort of a crane, think it's doable DIY.  Know you don't have the time for that.

I know that you're having your house constructed.  Don't know how much involvement you're allowed to have.  Weren't you talking about a relative at one point?  Anyway, If you can "help" during construction you can do little things (that most contractors don't/won't) that will make a normally built house much tighter than normal.

Think I've mentioned b4 that there's a contractor in Chicago that builds normal looking, normally constructed houses.  Guarantees the heating bill for the first three years.  Was profiled on TOH long ago and they did a second segment a few years back.  I've hit the web site and asked him a few questions over the years.  Don't have it bookmarked.  Think name was Perry Bigelow.  Bigelow homes.

[Daddymem]

Oh yeah, we had a conversation with him (he is my ex cousin in law I guess you could call it).  He will be happy to let us do as much as we want!  This will be almost as good as building it myself, I get to work with some pros maybe.  And to us, we just want to get into a house that won't have a mortgage anchor attached to it.  I make great money, and my wife will eventually go back to work but we wanted to live below our current means so when our situation gets better, we can be in a great situation.  My mortgage will likely be 1/3 of the majority of my coworkers and far less than rent.

I have been all over SIPs sites, several are right near us.  I think there may be a climate thing attached to SIPs.  If you live in an extreme climate (hot or cold) the benefits may begin to outweigh the additional costs at at earlier time.  Our temperatures here fluctuate from extremes of just over zero in the winter to just under 100 in the summer, but the average temperatures for any given season are pretty moderate so I am not sure there would be as much a bonus for us.  I am going to look at the poor man's SIPs since it looks like I can at least do that part all by myself.  Now if I can just get Glenn out this way I'd be all set, the clambake is on me  

[peg_688]

  You going to have little necks on the 1/2 shell?  (Quahogs ) Daddymem!

   SIPS ( Stress-skin pnls) , never used them . The timberframe guys like um , shows the whole frame , which is the idea . Plus not all the backframe infill that used to be done 30 years ago when the timberframe guys got a second start .

  The return over cost going in would be steep IMHO .  If it's a ten year min. stay/house  it would / could be worth it.  That would be a guess at break even// start to gain . On higher get in cost .

  What would kill a DIY person , IMO , would be weight of the pnls and boom truck / crane time .  Unless you own one , which is sort of unlikely . Rental time would run cost out the top / window . And you better be efficiant in placing them one after another ,after another, etc .

   So any Quahogs ??
 HTBH  ;)PEG

  PS I'm from R.I. first 21 years , love quahogs  

[glenn-k]

How about lobster---lobsta to you--

If I was a reasonable distance away rather than the other side of the world, I'd be there.

[Daddymem]

Ya, the whole works:

Cherrystones and oysters at the raw bar
ceg of Sammy
pot of chower
toasted brown bread (with raisins of course!)
clams
sausage
linguica
white potato
sweet potato
hot dog
corn
onion
fish in a bag
lobster
watermelon

And the next day when we all can actually move we can go give the stripers some hell.

[Daddymem]

I've got it!  I'm going to collect all the foamcore boards from my presentations from now on.  Four 24x36 boards will give me 3'x2'x1" I'll just glue them back to back..................naw

[Daddymem]

Heh...what is that about asking and receiving?

"If you have a set of plans, even preliminary plans, and would like to know what it would cost to have your home paneled, feel free to send them to us.  We will respond quickly, with a complete, itemized quotation."

From Foard Panel Inc. out of New Hampshire...perfect!

[glenn-k]

Hey Daddymem, could we also have horseneck clams - they are West coast but I really like them.  I used to dig 'em and eat 'em when I was young-yummy - Newport, Oregon or south as I remember.

Oh look-- there goes one now--- :-/  Note: This guy has a much bigger one than I ever had.



More info where this picture came from

http://www.nefsc.noaa.gov/faq/fishfaq5a.html  

[peg_688]

 That is one big clam .  Never have done the duk thing . Some say south Whidbey  beachs have them . Sort of private down south never tried  
   Always thought the penn (OLY) was the place to goiduck ( sp).

     We are off Friday claming for steamer at  private beach ,By Dewey beach , Grandkid  flys out on Sat so Friday we clam on the client beach , approved by client .   She'll enjoy the dig , we'll enjoy the clams . Once we send her home to the parents .   Good visit , good kid .   Joy of being a Grand parent , priceless      HTBH  ;)PEG

[Daddymem]

Nice site...now I'm hungry  

[Mommymem]

Ewwwwwwww. That thing looks grosser than the little ones Daddymem brought home from his last clambake.

[rdzone]

I know off topic but I thought I would post a web site showing some record razor clams from my home state, Alaska.  Take a look these things are HUGE!  


http://alaskaoutdoorjournal.com/Articles/recordclams.html

[glenn-k]

I think we can bring it back to subject by saying that a pot luck or clambake is a good way to lure unwary helpers to your jobsite for cheap help when it is needed.  Maybe offer a beer or two at the end of the day.

That said, razor clams are also one of my favorites, but I don't think I could eat one of those at one setting. :-/

[quil]

I have been reading this forum for a few weeks now. I have received a lot of valuable information so I decided to register and add my two cents worth. We are planning to build a cabin in the next few months I hope using SIPS. I like the type of construction because you are dried in and lockable quickly.
I currently live in a timber frame home that has skin stress panels. (sheet rock, foam insulation, and osb). This type of construction worked well for us as owner builders we had less work to do. It has only been 17 years and the house is almost completed. No really we got most of the work done and moved in about 18 months. The house cost more at the time we built for about $51 a foot.
We have not had any problems with the foam insulation except for carpenter ants.  
And keep clam sorry I couldn't resist

[glenn-k]

Welcome, Quil.  I think that was at least a two bits worth.

What's two bits???

The Spanish milled dollars were easily cut apart into equal "bits" of 8 pieces. One "bit" would be equal to 1/8 of a dollar, and 2 bits would equal 2/8 (or 1/4 - a quarter of a dollar). So, it is easy to see why the coins were called "pieces of eight", and "2 bits" was commonly used to refer to 25 cents.

From http://www.geocities.com/fifth_grade_tpes/twobits.html

[Okie_Bob]

Two bits, four bits, six bits, a dollar....all for Glenn stand up and hollar!!!
Glenn you are a wealth of information!
How do you manage to find time to built your house and spend countless hours on the web searching for all this useful information.
My head is spinning, if it wasn't 7 am, I think I'd have a beer!
Okie Bob

[glenn-k]

I think my dad told me when I was a kid about bits- I just looked up a site to confirm it -

Using Firefox I can browse in tabs having about 20 pages open at once  so search engine is ready to go at all times - I simply swap tabs - search - copy and paste information from one tab to another- It does require a fairly decent computer and DSL to make much time though- A benefit of living in a hole in the ground---- I can easily tap into the underground DSL line (for a fee).

[quil]

Thank you for the welcome this site is a wealth of information.  

[glenn-k]

Our pleasure, Quil, --and if you can't find what you want, just ask -- we'll have it shortly -maybe.

Bob, in continuing on your answer - I get about 5 or 6 hours of sleep each night - unfortunately I require 8, so that explains why I'm half goofy all the time. :-/

When it's hot I don't get a lot done on the house but it gives me time to think up other ways to do things that would make other people think I'm weird.  That makes me feel better.