basement "finishing" question

[MikeT]

I have a daylight basement as my foundation (stepped foundation with a 9' high concrete retaining wall as my back wall).  I know think I am going to use furring strips (or 2x4's) on the concrete parts of the wall and then rigid styroform insulate and put wallboard for the walls.  

My question is whether I should first put something like 6 mil. plastic against the concrete, and if so, would it make sense to run that plastic continuously under the (to be poured slab)?

Thanks as always...

mt

[PEG688]

Basement walls are alway trickie , so it depends on many factors , yes Glenn breakum out  

Sure IF you have a dry , well drained site your plan of visqueen and 2 bys may work for years.

For a less than dry site YMMV wildly , asphalt emlusion on the  exeterior or the newer more $$'s membranes with drain rock , etc along with the inside visqueen and a larger air space behind the wall venting etc and you still could have issues of mold  or worst in  a short time .

So it DEPENDS on all and MTL more than I mentioned as to if it will be OK.

 Running your visqueen into the slab may work but it again MTL will get ripped by the finisher on the wieght of the mud but it's worth a try.

G/L PEG

 MTL= More Than Likely   

[John Raabe]

It is always best and cheapest to do good drainage (drain tile and gravel backfill) and a moisture barrier (tar, membrane) on the outside of a concrete wall as it is being built. Once the wall is wet there are constant problems controlling that moisture in habitable space (as PEG discusses).

That said, most basements have less than complete drainage and moisture barriers.

Selling you solutions to bad construction is a growth industry as you can see from this search:
http://tinyurl.com/2w8h3u

[glenn kangiser]

Thanks for clearing that up PEG -- I thought you were calling me "My True Love" again.

I'm with you - the problems should be taken care of outside the wall.  If there is a problem inside We can kick it around a bit but it should be handled before the floor slab goes in.  There is a company that sells and installs interior drain sustems - cut along the wall and put the French drains inside at the edge of the wall.

Is there a problem yet or are we just planning ahead? :-?

[MikeT]

I hope against hope that I will not have a problem with moisture in this basement.  On the backside of this retaining wall, I have a dimpled membrane.  At the bottom of the outside perimeter,  I placed a perimeter drain and over the drain I have 2 feet of 1 1/2" drain rock.  Then I placed filter fabric.  Then on top of that I have lots and lots of crushed rock (about 50 tons), suitable as a road base--this goes nearly to the top of the wall.  I have this because I am likely going to pave the area behind the wall over to the road as a driveway (20 feet).  And it will be sloped to move water to the side of the house and to storm drains.

But my question was referring to added protection on the front end on the interior.  Is what I proposed a good thing to do or not?  Is it a layer of protection that if needed, I really have problems and therefore might be masking something I should be monitoring?

mt

[glenn kangiser]

Sounds like you are pretty well covered, but as extra protection - I assume the floor is not in - could you add dimpled membrane to the interior wall behind the paneling and treated or redwood nailers, and an additional French drain under the floor to drain to daylight through the lower wall?  Seems you said the floor was not in yet?

[PEG688]

Sounds like you have it covered pretty well, I'd do the 6 mil , and it goes without saying PT / Cedar if in contact with concrete.

If you can run visqeeun under the mud and up the wall and visqueen down the wall and over the lower visqueen, like I said so holes and gonna get punched in that barrier so you do all you can and hope for the best. Of course make sure you run the pipes to day light and keep it clear / free of plugging up.  Water once it's found a path in is a #itch  to stop / keep out once it's found a way in .

G/L PEG

[MikeT]

Thanks.  I think I like the idea of the dimpled membrane on the interior.  I think this might work for both the wall and the floor.  Then I could build a warmer floor on top.  But I will wait on this until I pour the slab and see how the wall etc. does during the wet winter.  In the meantime, I will still ponder the merits of putting the 6 mil poly on the wall and running it under the slab.   I might put sand down before the mud gets poured as well.

So many options.....

mt

[PEG688]

How much$$$ is the dimpled membrane ??  IMO IF true " water" gets inside the basement  your screwed anyway.  What your combatting with the 6 mil is more moisture that wicks thru the concrete, it would be a waste of $$ to use that drainage membrane inside the basement it mission is to allow water , not so much "moisture" to , to move freely down the exterior wall to the primeter drain , so inside  IF "water" gets thru the concrete wall that barrier is a moot point .

Your mixing to different types of things , again IMO , when talking about water and moisture as one thing. If that makes sence, as water is a form of moisture , or vice versa :-/ :-?

Not a very good written explanation , so I hope you get my point :-/

[John Raabe]

You've done a good job of the most important things Mike. That wall should dry out pretty well and then only need a barrier that breaks the direct connection between wood and the concrete.

[MikeT]

Re: the dimpled membrane and $$$.  I found out that my local concrete supplier loves to unload sheets that commercial installers deem too small.  I can get a 20 foot long sheet that is 8 feet high for $30 or so.  If I get two of these sheets and overlap then by two feet, then I easily can cover a wall.  Four will cover a floor.  

Re the water and the moisture, you are right, PEG, I was co-mingling and confusing the two.  I want to protect against all this bad stuff.  I am trying to do my protective measures on the front end, rather than when it becomes more costly.

mt

[Daddymem]

I tried to find where I read it but somewhere it mentioned attaching unfaced foam directly against the concrete then strapping over the foam to attach the finish surface too.  Any ideas what to use?  Liquid Nails?  I would like to do something this summer myself since the basement was way too cold this winter since we lack a furnace or boiler in ours and I didn't insulate the outside.  I have no worries of water as it is deep and we are in sand and I did the outside coating on my cellar wall.


Ottawa-Wings SCF

[PEG688]

Ottawa-Wings SCF

What happened to the Bruin's this year  :'( :'(

Go Senators , the poor Canadian people need a Canadian winner eh

[MikeT]

My two favorite teams are the Avs and anyone who plays Detroit.  So go Ducks and it looks like go Senators.

mt

Sorry about the drift, but this is playoff hockey and that may be the best season of all.

[glenn kangiser]

Go Grizzleys.

Sorry guy's -- we don't have hockey down here .  All we have is Donkey Basketball.