16 x 28 Little House Commencing in N. Wisconsin

[crose]

And finally, after two decades of dreaming about this, Im starting this cabin.  I purchased the Big Enchilada plans and got some great ideas, as well as absolutes musts, for beginning the project (Im a complete novice with building).  I wish I would have gotten the plans before I started the foundation though.

At 25 years old I purchased 30-ac for pretty cheap in the woods of N. Wisconsin.  My dream was to build a log cabin using my own logs.  But now Im a husband, father, grandfather, and have piled up a month of vacation to get up a shell.  I flew from CA to N. Wisonsin (my homeland) for a week to put in the foundation.  I got that done.

Ive got three rows of 3 holes filled with 3/4" angular gravel.  The holes are 2-ft square at a minimum of 25-in depth.  I made sure to get get down to undisturbed mineral soil.  The soil is sand with granitic gravel showing up about 1-ft down.  Water percs in the holes no problem.   There's a lake across the gravel road.   There is virtually no clay.  Good thing as the frostline is about 4-ft deep.  Between the holes are smaller 1-ft square holes to support the middle portion of the beams.  On these I placed 18"x18"x2" pavers, then built up from there with either concrete block, or the deck blocks in the smaller holes.

I could go on for hours about how this went.  But the short story is that, although in CA there are millions of the pyramid blocks with the simpson tie for a 4-in beam, the only thing close I could find was a porch block for an upright 4x4 without the tie.  So, since the guy on the other 40 next door has a 82,000 lb modular sitting on concrete block that hasnt budged in years, I went that route on the corners and middle, with the porch blocks and 4x4s between.  I will try to post a reduced size of the photo.

The big question for now.  Im building this with a lot of time on my own.  Id love to use 2x6s for the 10 foot walls to accomodate the floor for the loft.  But, I will have to go with 2x4s and 10 foot walls.  Ive seen some guys put the floor joists for the loft over the headers, although the plans for the builders cottage has the joists on hangers.   Do you think I could use 2x10s drapped over the headers, and where there are no headers, the loft joists also drapped over a ledger affixed to the studs with deck screws?  My plan was to place the ledger so that the top of it was aligned with the top of all the headers, so the deck screws would be going into the 2x12 headers, and where there are no headers, into the 2x4s.  The essence of my question is that Im using 2x4s and not 2x6s for the studs, and am a little concerned that the 2x4s cannot take the weight of the 2x10 loft joists across the entire cabin, not just half of it.

Im heading back in 10 days to commence!. wew!

The beams are two 4x6s stacked together to make a 4x12; they didnt have 4x12s and Im doing this alot on my own.  The 3 beams are about 7ft apart each.  Over these Im putting either 16-ft 8in or 10in joists at 16in o.c.  I would go with 10in to achieve an R30 insulation.  

Chris



(Chris: I resized the image and hosted it at Photobucket - John R. [PS - nice work!])

[jraabe]

First off, your foundation, while unconventional seems like it should be plenty sturdy. You cannot really stack two beams on top of each other and expect the same strength as a solid full depth beam. However, I see you have strapped them together and you could add more straps or metal nailing plates if needed. This would build up the shear strength with more nails and welds the two beams together better.

That said it looks like you have three beams with the floor spanning only 8' for your 16' wide cabin so I'm not too worried about you ever overloading those beams.

It seems you have investigated the soils and have sufficient solid bearing. You should have no problem in well drained soils. There are people who have posted to this forum and have built shallow footing cabins in some very cold climates without problems of frost heave or settlement (again, these were in well drained soil, not wet clay). The only downside to such a foundation is from tipping or uplift forces from a strong earthquake or high winds. You aren't anchored into the ground as well as with a concrete perimeter foundation. You might check this remote possibility out with your local history as there are things that can be done to resist these forces.

As to the loft support... The ledger detail I show in the Enchilada plans works well for 2x6 framing as there is enough meat to notch the studs for the ledger to get full bearing without weakening the wall. You can't do the same thing for a 2x4 wall. To some extent you are going to have to put your faith in the shear value of the nails or screws holding the ledger to the wall. To the extent you can get the joists over a header or lapped over a stud - those connections won't be a problem.

Let's think about this a bit more and see if any of our member builders have any other suggestions.

[glenn-k]

If not dealing with codes possible a 1x4 let into the 2x4 studs could work.

It may put the stress up a bit on the wood fibers but was always done in the old days - before we had engineers--   ...and would be better than just nails in shear.  Possibly you don't want any notches in your 2x4's though.  

You may also be able to reinforce the notch area with heavy plywood doublers glued and nailed with ring shank or screw nails.

[crose]

Your points are well taken, thank you.  Yes, i figured the stacked 4x6s were not as strong as a single 4x12.  Of course the problem was I couldnt get the 4x12, and I probably couldnt lift them into place myself either.  I will decorate with more straps and nail plates to add strength through the nail shear.

I was also concerned about the lack of anchoring.  We dont have earthquakes, but it might get a little breezy now and then.  Some of my aspens blew over from a tornado about 30 miles away a couple months ago, but this is very rare up north.

The weight of 2x6 walls are of a concern, seeing Im doing most the lifting myself.  Thats why I was thinking in terms of 2x4s.   I also considered rigging up a block and tackle system, that might solve the problem.

I dont feel comfortable with notching the 2x4s either.  My house is from the 20s where Im living, and I see the old timers did notch in a 1x for the ledger, but the 2x4s were true 2x4s of redwood.  

Im wondering if the 10ft walls are worth the extra space in the loft; by the time drap the 2x10s over the headers, Im only gaining an extra 13 inches at most.....maybe just go with the little house plans, 2x4 walls, and 12:12 pitch on the roof for a low loft.  

Need to make some decisions.

Thanks for your input.

Chris

[MarkAndDebbie]

If your concern about the 2x6 walls is lifting them, why not build smaller sections? THere has also been discussion here of wall jacks. I would think you would want 2x6 in WI for the insulation. YOu could also do 2 2x4 walls like http://www.countryplans.com/nicolaisen.html (though that wouldn't help your ledger problem).

The Nash cabin lag bolted their ledger on (don't know if that is OK - just mentioning it). Before I asked how to do the ledger I was thinking of running the joist next to the stud, bolt/nailing it to the 'king stud' and putting a 'jack stud' under it. That with a lag bolted ledger might work. As was pointed out to me - that would be a good bit more lumber.

For what it's worth I just raised a 2x6 mostly sheathed 8' x 8' wall myself. It may not have been the brightest thing I have done, but it's doable from a weight perspective.

[Rob72]

The wife and I were humbled by the devastation of that tornado in Wisconsin.   It didn't directly affect us, but the day after it hit, we flew over the path to see the damage.  If there is any question to whether or not high winds can literally pick a house up off it's foundation, check out the picture I took from the airplane.

On a brighter note, don't question yourself on the 10' walls.  Go with them!  They've made life in our loft a whole lot more comfortable.  Even if its only an extra 14 inches, it's worth it.  As for the 2x4 wall construction, we also went this route and insulation has been the least of our worries.  We heat the cabin independantly with a woodstove and found ourselves opening the loft window last winter in zero degree conditions.  Our roof rafters are of 2x6 construction packed tight with R19 on 10/12 pitch.  



(Edited to move image to Photobucket- GK  - cuts down on our site overhead per John)

[Sassy]

very graphic...  :-/  

I slept through a tornado when I was 5 in Ohio - it just knocked a couple big limbs off our trees, took the 2nd story off our neighbor's house...

[jraabe]

Just for a point of referrence, a 1/2" dia. lag screw can hold about 470 lbs in lateral shear. If you can get two of these through a 2x ledger and into a stud then you can hold 940 lbs. With a 16" stud spacing and 8' of loft load going to each wall that loft would have a hard time producing 500 lbs of actual load on the stud.

You are unlikely to overload the ledger even if you do have to bolt it to the studs.

[Rob72]

I've attached a picture of my early stage loft construction.  The cabin is 16x24 with a 8x16 loft on each side.  I used the window headers on both sides to support the main loft beam (3 2x6x16's sandwiched together) If window headers don't conveniently fall where your beams are being placed,  A solid 4x6 or 3 2x4's sandwiched together and extended to the floor will do the job, I used this method on the other side of the cabin.   I then ran my loft joists lengthwise on hangers rather than spanning the width of the 16' cabin.  I'm very pleased with the strength of outcome.  

[crose]

Many thanks for all of your ideas.

Rob, how did you attach the ledger to the short wall to your left in the photo?

The lag bolts sound interesting, as do the addition of the jack stud.  Its a little disconcerting to think that the lag bolt would be 1/2 inch diamter, leaving only 1/2 inch of stud on either side of the bolt.  But it seems that it worked for others.  I wonder if all lag bolts are created equal?  

I know Ive screwed the heads off of some chineese made screws.

I grew up in N. Wisconsin, and have never met a tornado up there, although some would come through in the southern part of the state now and then.  I suppose I could fill the concrete blocks with rebar and concrete, that way, if a tornada did come through, it would at least take the foundation with it...maybe even place the cabin where I originally wanted it.

Thanks again for your input.  Im scouring the Little House Plans to make sure Ive included everything.  

Ah...one thing that the local lumber yard said they didnt have is 3/4 T&G CDX flooring...I really wanted a sound subfloor.  They said they have "underlayment."  Never heard of it, but a google search comes up with something a maximum of 9mm thickness; less than 1/2 inch!  I wonder if I should just go with 3/4CDX that isnt T&G.

Chris

[glenn-k]

There is also 3/4 OSB T&G subfloor sheathing that is used in a lot of the crackerboxes around here but you don't want to get it wet for any length of time as it swells and doesn't go back down.  After about 6 months of off and on rain and sweeping the water off after every rain, drilling drain holes etc.  a project of about 120 apartments I worked on was about to the point of having damage that needed repair.

No T&G would give flexing at the unsupported edges.

[MarkAndDebbie]

BTW - I was in BLowes today and saw 2 types of 3/4 inch T&G OSB. One was $11 and one was $21. The supposed difference is that the $21 can sustain much more weather before swelling.

[Rob72]

Chris,

I think you're asking me how I attached the first loft floor joist to the wall, but if not, please clarify.

I ran a bead of Liquid Nail and sunk (2) 3" ribbed framing nails at each stud.

In addition to the fasteners you used to secure the piers to the beam, you may want to pick yourself of some steel t-straps and bolt them in with some 3/8" bolts.  I also did this after the fact and it really stiffens up the beam pier attachment.



                           

[MountainDon]

I've give a lot of thought to 2x4 vs 2x6 wall construction and have decided that 2x6 is well worth the effort for the extra insulation value. That goes for summer and winter. I realize that heating with wood, my option as well, means just having to throw another log on the fire.However, the extra insulation and extra care taken in air sealing will result in the corner feeling less cold.

As Mark and/or Debbie suggested, build the walls in shorter sections for ease of raising if on the job manpower is limited. Make the top plate overlap the joints by 4 foot or more.

One other thing. I've noticed locally (NM) that exterior doors for 2x4 framed walls need to be specially ordered. No one carries them in stock; everything is for 2x6. Not a big deal, but something to note. That's mainly due to NM building code requires meeting the 2003 IECC code. (International Energy Conservation Code)

That was one of the factors helping my decision. If I were to get a proper building permit there's no way I could meet the requirements with 2x4 walls.

There a website at http://www.energycodes.gov/rescheck/ . You can either use an online service or use the downloadable program. You can play around with wall insulation values as well as ceiling, floor, window and door types to find what will pass and what will not. The requirements vary state to state. Most, but all states can be processed with this tool. Some are following newer, more stringent rules, others less stringent. There's no rhyme or reason to it all it seems. Some of the more northern states are years behind in their requirements. Go figure. Politics.  :-/ Some states, even northern ones, are 10-12 years out of date. Of course if there are no permits/codes involved in your process it's strictly a builders choice.

Once you establish a set or parameters that will pass the code check the ResChek program will let you print out a form that should be accepted by most code enforcement departments as verification that your plan will work. There are requirements to save window and door tags, etc. for the final inspection.

Also see http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1177221623  on this forum

[crose]

Again, many thanks to all who have written.

Rob, yes, that was the question, and you answered it...thanks.  Im also going to strap the beams to the blocks better as you suggest.

Re: 2x6 vs 2x4.  The Little House Plans recommends getting the framing book by John Wagner.  I did that...and am I glad I did.  As I said, Im a novice, and the book really opened my eyes to a few things; tradgedy narrowly averted.  

Anyway, the book also recommended using 2x6s.  That, with the other advice I received here, I decided on the 2x6s.   I will make shorter panels so I can lift them.  The insulation will come in very handy in N. Wisconsin; it's already dipped down into the 20s at night...unbelievable.  Im also going with 2x8 floor joists rather than the 2x6s in the plans..doing this for the insulation-a friend recommended 2x10s, but that might be overkill.

Glen, Ive decided to not go with the OSB; Im a bit nervous about weather.  Its calling for rain for the next week, so Ill go with the CDX.  Id love to cut the cost of the flooring in half, but am not willing to risk a week of rain on it.  The 3/4 TG is $25 a sheet.  

One last word on the Plans.  I messed around a LOT with my own plans.  Changing several times to suit this or that.  To make a long story short, Ive ended up with the floorplan and layout nearly identical to the 14x24 with the high pitch roof for a loft using 8-foot walls as provided in tbe Little House Plans.  I feel pretty good about using something already laid out so nicely.  For novices like me....I think its a good thing.

Commencing the platform this week....

Chris

[glenn-k]

Sounds good, Chris.  Please keep us posted.

[Woodswalker]

Yo Chris,

I finally got back to the forum after months away (building).  Great to see your posting on progress with your project.  I concur that your foundation should work just fine.  I buried the deck blocks I used about 2.5ft, to address both frost and wind issues.  There are tie-down systems available for mobile homes that you might want to check into.  Although rare, tornadoes do happen in northern MN and WI.  There have also been blowdowns of timber over larger areas, not related to tornadoes.

Years ago I lifted a 32' wall of 2 x 4's with 5/8" sheathing installed and two large headers.  Stuck two old wood beams vertically into excavation on exterior of the block foundation, extending around 9' above the deck.  Then rented two chain hoists and attached them to the tops of the beam-posts.  Attached blocking to the edge of the deck to prevent the wall from sliding off, and pre-attached bracing 2 x 4's on the ends.  A neighbor (in his 80's) and I cranked away on the chain hoists and pulled that wall right up.  It was indeed a pretty dangerous undertaking, but it worked.  If you've got trees nearby, you should evaluate using a block and tackle(s) to raise walls.  I used a very small one I hang deer with to raise a large window into the opening at the cabin I'm building.

I'll soon be posting some pics and comments re my cabin project to update folks.  Look forward to more about yours.  Keep on building.

Steve