Has anyone built a bridge

[Shawna]

Or a good culvert that didn't wash away with the spring rains?

We have 7 acres in Tennessee, the front of the property has a small spring at the bottom of a gentle hill, it starts on our neighbors property and trickles through ours and on down the hill. The back of the property has another larger creek with a steeper incline. We could come in that way but I think it would be more work and more money.

We have to build something before the septic and electric will come out and do their thing, otherwise I am pretty sure the trucks would get stuck down there.

I have never seen the spring flow at more than a few feet wide, but the ground around the area is wet even in the dry fall season,

The problems I see with a culvert are it getting blocked with leaves and debris and flooding over the top and back into our neighbors land, which wouldn't hurt anything but I don't know how he'd feel about that.

Any ideas and pictures would be helpful, we see alot of wildlife at the spring and I don't want to muck it up too much.....

Shawna

[JRR]

I would think the septic tank guy could also handle this problem.   I'm thinking of digging down a foot or so across the water path ... perhaps 12ft wide.... and as long as required to go from "dry" to "dry".  Then pour a 6" gravel bed.   Lay parallel a few 10' lengths of small dia rigid pipe,  perhaps 4" or 6" PVC.   Stake and wire the pipe for straightness, and to prevent movement, with rebar.  There needs to be at least a foot of separation between the pipes.   Try to have a slight slope (1/8" per foot) on the pipes.   Hand shovel gravel around the pipe runs.   Continue to cover with gravel until the pipe has at least 6" of gravel, or "crusher run" cover.   Obviously, the pipe ends are to remain clear ... and you can install screens on the inlets if needed.

This should yield a pass that is about 8ft wide.  Longer pipes could be used if preferred.

Your septic tank contractor will have suggestions to meet local conditions I'm sure .... I'm just offering a thought starter.

[Shawna]

Sounds good

Your idea is pretty much what we had in mind, just still concerned about the leaves blocking the pipes even with screens. It's all hardwoods, the falling leaves are so thick, at times you can't even see the water, until you try to drive through it, which we do in the 4x4. Dry to dry is about 15 feet.

The septic guy was supposed to meet us up there last month,  no show. We heard from the neighbors he didn't show up till the third appointment with them, and then he took another three weeks before he showed up with the backhoe to actually do the work.

Good thing we aren't in a hurry......

Shawna

[glenn-k]

We used to build bridges out of logs and I could give more detail if you think it would be of use to you.  It sounds like something like JRR mentioned may work fine for your application.  You may need a few loads of road base or rock to keep bigger rigs from sinking in.  If you add the road base then a larger culvert could be used which probably wouldn't plug as easily.  Then as the project gets bigger and bigger it costs more and more.  Sometimes it's better to go bigger first than to pay a tow bill for getting a septic rig out of a swamp.  Generally problems get charged back to a job as much as possible.  :-/

[Daddymem]

How deep is the ditch?  
You should have a minimum of 1-foot of cover over a pipe that will take vehicle loads.  I would suggest smooth wall HDPE (High Density Polyethylene), RCP (Reinforced Concrete), or CMP (Corrugated Metal Pipe) since PVC tends to break down over time.  If you can, install ones with aprons (or make one from riprap) to prevent undermining of the pipe (could be nothing if the water doesn't move fast during storms).  Get at least 6" of gravel below the pipe, and make sure you compact the stone all the way up to the haunch (about 1/2 way up the pipe) to help prevent crushing.  Typical minimum diameter requirements for driveway culverts are 12" or 15" which will help prevent clogging.  You don't want to screen the ends too small if you like critters and there are lil guys that travel along the ditch.  Do a search in google for driveway culvert and you will find all kinds of standards and sketches.

[glenn-k]

Since Daddymem is the professional here, I have say that sounds like the best plan yet (because it does).  

These are suggestions only and we don't guarantee anything, but we do have top quality people here always willing to help each other.

Thanks to all Countryplans members for making this one of the greatest forums on the net.

[Daddymem]

Since Daddymem is the professional here, I have say that sounds like the best plan yet (because it does).

I only play a professional at work  And since I haven't bothered to get my license yet, technically it is an unqualified opinion.

[glenn-k]

Daddymem,

I have a welding certification that proves that I passed a test one time - does not prove that I am currently capable of doing it even if I am.

I have a well drilling  and general contracting license that only proves that I passed a state test one time and haven't been a bad enough boy to get them taken away.  I have a pilot license and am here to talk about it and all that proves is that I haven't done anything stupid enough to kill myself yet.

Your knowledge is manifest in your work and recommendations. :-/

In other words, if you were BS'ing us we'd figure you out.     Besides our advice is worth the price paid for admission to the forum.

[Daddymem]

Oh don't get me wrong.  I don't have my license yet on purpose.  I get to be a design engineer instead of a Project Manager.  I get to get dirty in the field and get deep in the calculations.  I don't have to put up with the headaches of clients as much.  I can choose to work on small septic systems, large pump stations or site planning for large developments.  Just today I got to do a perc test for a 3 bedroom home (okay it was my own), solve some construction issues on a 2 million dollar pump station project, and begin the umpteenth layout of an 8.5 acre building (yes building, not site).  Meanwhile, the PE guys get to tell people like me to do all this fun stuff.  Of course all of that is nothing compared to living underground in a home I built myself.  

[glenn-k]

Daddymem, sounds like you have some cool giant projects going.  Everyone knows that the design engineers are the ones who get the job done.  I worked with an engineer on the medical building project to correct head clearance problems in a staircase area.   The architect tried three times and failed 3 times.  I suggested possible fixes - the engineer  crunched numbers-gave me sizes and drew it up.  What a great team.

I'm still glad that an engineer crunched the numbers to be sure that this 461,250 lbs of horse manure and dirt overhead stays up there even if it was by a rule of thumb table.

The difference between doing it this way for about $5000 or going with an engineered concrete house underground of similar size or smaller is about $1,000,000 using the example of a friend of ours in a nearby county for reference.  She still hasn't been able to satisfy the planning commission and the bank at the same time.

I am satisfied with the tables designed by the well qualified engineer, and have a hard time understanding why the tables are not enough except for a few things -- namely taxes, lawyers, corporate profit.  Mike Oehler said he is going to have to rewrite his book and raise the cost of the Underground House because his methods are so cheap that no one takes him seriously. :-/  Seriously.

[Amanda_931]

Where in Tennessee?  I'm not all that far from the junction of Tennessee with Alabama and Mississippi.

Back when I was whining about getting access to the back side of my property, people on another list were suggesting salvage flat-bed trailers.  (all told it might have taken three--it would have taken two had to span one gully, so I thought that buying more land was the answer.)  But for your purposes you might consider  that.  You wouldn't be a pioneer in this type of bridge, at the time I heard of them lasting for generations.

Mother Earth News did have an article on building wooden bridges--suitable for the concrete truck.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/library/1984_May_June/Homestead_Handbook__How_To_Build_a_Simple_Log_Bridge

A couple of months ago I was down the hill joining my neighbors watching a whirlpool in a stream.  The county had gotten tired of replacing the--probably 20-some foot) oak bridge over Possum Creek, and had put in a largish (4-ft?) galvanized pipe--tile, many tons of rock and chert fill around it.   Big old logs were being sucked down into it.  We had visions of them forming a dam.  No takers on a bet as to how long this arrangement will last.

This is a small creek, under normal circumstances well under knee-deep.  But either if there is a stalled rainstorm over its watershed (and/) or there is a big storm in the county upstream, the banks--which are probably five or six feet deep right there--can fill up big time.  Not your situation at all--aren't you glad?

[Shawna]

Fortunately our land is on top of the hill, not at the bottom, the natural spring starts on the first lot then feeds down across ours and so forth. By the time it gets to the bottom and has a bunch of other creeks joined up, it's pretty good sized, the creek on the back property is bigger and the inclines are much steeper.

The spring is not deep, only a few inches in the fall and right now about 9 inches. The ditch is not even that much of a ditch, more of a swoop, but I want something I don't have to fix all the time or pay a towing bill!

We are on the Cumberland Plateau, south of Crossville. We bought it to get away from people, mainly the tourists, and other stuck up snobs around here, I guess we are just antisocial.  Also my husbands work cell doesn't work up there.....hehe.

It's the kindof place where you can drive a truck down the highway and every person out side in the yards or driving the opposite way waves at you...even with out of state plates.

Can't get that down here in Golf/Yuppieville. Oh, you might get waved at but it will be the one finger variety.

Thanks for the suggestions, guess I have some reading to do!

[glenn-k]

I know the feeling, Shawna.  When I have to leave the mountain and go to the freeway with the inconsiderate unthinking raging pushing shoving sheeple below it's like a little piece of Hell on earth.

Up here we all take care of each other, neighbors help and wave too, but please stop short of calling us inbred rednecks - I have my rifle on the window rack of my primered Dodge and my hounds would sniff you out no matter where you try to hide.


Just kidding -----------maybe. :-/

[Amanda_931]

We wave at both cars and trucks here.  Real friendly folks.