Don and Peter's Hot Rod Corner

[MountainDon]

Another weird but fuel efficient car from the post WWII era. A Messerschmitt...  about 65 mpg with 1940's technology.

If you ever sat in one you really feel it's aviation heritage. The 'cockpit' feels almost as cramped as that of a fighter plane. Back home in Canada the Hudson Bay Company downtown department store had them on display and available for purchase. I never did see any on the road though.

That's an interesting museum site too.
http://www.microcarmuseum.com/

[Drew]

What did it look like before the accident? 

[John_C]

The picture of the Messerschmitt doesn't show up on my computer at work.  The Pic above it that I posted shows up just fine.

Can others see the Messerschmitt?

[glenn kangiser]

What did it look like before the accident? 

The Bionic Car, Drew   I've crapped things that look better than that.

[MountainDon]

I tossed the Messerschmitt image in a photobucket account. Sometimes links to 3rd party websites are not reliable. Sometimes their server blocks links to them after a certain number of loads. I also noticed the first time I read the message it was slow to appear.

[MountainDon]

I'd seen that micromuseum site before but never looked through the entire photo tour. Until now, over the past couple days.  I have a reason to go to Madison, GA.



Noe that's a microcar!

1959 BMW Isetta WHATTADRAG

This car is just like the small toy HotWheels version

Except that it actually runs.

And it is very very fast.

And it is very very loud.

With a Big Block Chevy 502 motor and SuperCharger,
BF-Goodrich G-Force P215/60R14 tires in the front
and a single Sumitoma HTRZ II 285/35ZR18 tire in the rear,
it will smoke any other microcar out there.

Yes, there is a switch to make it throw flames out about 4 feet on each side

Manufacturers:
Body by Bayerische Motoren Werke, Munich, Germany
Everything else done by The Bruce Weiner Microcar Museum.

[glenn kangiser]

Did we ever post anything about the Aerocar?

http://www.aerocar.com/

[MountainDon]

No Glenn, we never did.

The recently announced Indian Tata Nano (below)...



...does bear a resemblance to the 1971 Cicostar, built and sold in France during the 1970's oil crunch.



1970 saw a worldwide energy crisis looming, and the French responded with a typical no-nonsense down-to-earth philosophy which had enabled them to survive such crises in the past. Small regional companies would be encouraged to build light, simple energy-efficient vehicles under a new set of government regulations. Some thirty companies responded over the next decade to build an astonishing variety of minicars. Unorthodox and spartan both in nature and appearance, such vehicles could only have come from France.

Of course, they utilized modern materials, and took advantage of recent developments in small-engine technology.

All vehicles with a 49.9cc engine could now be driven without a driver's license and by anyone over 14 years of age at a top speed of 45 kph.

The manufacturer CICO took this opportunity to develop a comfortable vehicle that fitted these requirements, the Cicostar.

Touted as "la plus elegante des petites voitures", it seated two people, had rear-wheel drive, and a variable automatic transmission by GRIMECA.

[MountainDon]

I've been asked about auto batteries. So here's my opinion(s)

I use Optima red top batteries in my Jeep. I started buying Optima red top batteries when they first came out a long time ago. Then, I bought it because the coiled gel cell technology promised better physical shock resistance and that is important when doing serious back country four wheeling. Another plus is they are totally sealed, no dripping acid if you're upside down.  I never have, BTW.    Being sealed the terminals never corrode. Being sealed also means they can be mounted on their end, side or even upside down. That makes it easier to find a place for a second battery.

I have two batteries. I do not use an electronic (diode) battery isolator. I use a simple heavy duty continuous duty relay. When the engine runs the relay is energized and connects the second battery to the system. When the engine (ignition key) is off the relay is not energized and the battery is isolated. Leave your lights on, whatever? No matter. Turn on the ignition, press the momentary contact toggle to energize the second battery and connect it to the system. Start the engine. Away you go. In normal mode when starting the engine the second battery is not connected, so it sits there as a reserve at all times. It's only normally connected when the engine is running.

I get five years of use out of them and then recycle them. Just to be sure I have a good battery at all times, I do not replace them in pairs.  This is generally a no-no.     You may get reduced capacity from them when there is an age difference greater than a year. But to me, in this application, I feel more comfortable when way back in the boonies.

For my regular cars I use a middle of the road to good quality (but not the premium best quality) standard lead acid battery. I do not buy "maintenance-free" batteries. I like to be able to check the fluid level and add water if and when necessary. I get the biggest that will fit and still be able to be secured in place. I tag them with a date 30 months down the road and replace it at that time. I'd buy an Optima for this purpose, but they cost more than a couple (or three) good standard batteries.

BTW, Optima's are also available under other names. Interstate is one. They may cost less.

[MountainDon]

i find interstate to be junk

In general that may or may not be. I dunno.

All I was pointing out is that I've been very pleased with Optima and that in the past 5 - 8 years they've been made available under other names, like Interstate. They are real Optimas, says so on the case under the Interstate label I peeled off. I just recycled the Interstate labeled Optimas I bought in January 2003. I bought them then because they had the best local price. This time I bought them from my local Desert Rat store on a sale.

Interstate isn't a manufacturer as far as I know. Optima is. Interstate does like many; the manufacturing is sourced out to their specs. Other than Optima, I have no brand loyalty when it comes to batteries. I look at a combination of capacity, size, availability, price.

Oh, one more thing... I believe it's better to but batteries from vendors who sell lots of them. Ditto on tires. In both cases you'll likely end up with a more recently manufactured battery or tire. They both start aging from date of manufacturer, not date of purchase, although you still get a full warranty from the purchase date.

And I noticed the other day that batteries took a price jump just recently. I've been tracking battery prices in expectation of buying new ones for the new cabin to be.

[Sassy]

Glenn used to be able to get recycled batteries for $20 in Fresno, but the shop closed down.  He just had to replace my Mercedes battery after 6 yrs - probably was the original - car is a 2000.  It's a really big, heavy duty, low profile battery.  He picked it up at Napa - don't know how good their batteries are...  but after having a dead battery twice in the last month - once after working a 21 hr shift in ER, it was about time... 

[mvk]

Thanks that was quick  
Not trying to sand bag you guys but about the backhoe!   My friend bought a Massey Ferguson backhoe used in 82 or so and was probably made in mid 70's. They had a short block installed at the time. He used it for an addition but not much. then his brother got it and used it for his house and an occasional job but again not much. The offered it to me for 1K. I thought I hit the jack pot it seemed like such a break out of nowhere. But what I missed was it hasn't been run for about 10 years or more, we were at a big October fest and it was early in the morning after many beers. I just found this out. I just assumed it was being used the guy has about 15 acres. Is this worth pursuing? If so should anything be done before trying to start it. Wouldn't the oil have drained off of most of the engine and down into the pan. I would need a battery to do it and thought why not get one for my car?  
Mike

[desdawg]

You about have to get it fired up to see what you have. You could very well need to replace most all of the hydraulic hoses after sitting that long and they will be fairly expensive. I have seen old Cat dozers brought back to life after sitting for long periods like that but it is only then that you get to see what is going to need repair. When you can swing the hoe around you will know how religiously it was greased when it was in use. The pins can take a lot of wear without being greased regularly.

[mvk]

thanks Desdawg
Makes sense. I'm not the best mechanic, I can take things apart and put them back together if I know whats wrong, but is there anything I can ruin or make worse before the oil gets to pumping and can I do anything first before trying to start it. Or is what ever is wrong already wrong and I wont make it worse. I guess I'm thinking of bearings and rings?
Mike

[glenn kangiser]

Check it out -- old machines can still do the work of the new ones - though maybe slower.  Check fluids for cloudiness -- water in them -- oil in radiator -- low levels etc.  Could be a real bargain.  Do as desdawg says an check it well.

[MountainDon]

Is it gas or diesel?

If it's gas and I can get the plugs out I'd squirt some penetrating oil in each cylinder and let that soak for a little bit. Then crank it with no plugs in it. That'll get oil moving around. Of course make certain all fluid levels are up.  Then replace the plugs and see if it'll go.

Must be a similar thing you can do with a diesel to keep it from firing right off. 

And be prepared to shut it off if and when oil or something starts spurting from something; hoses, whatever. Then if it runs make sure the coolant is flowing.

[glenn kangiser]

A diesel may start and run or run away on any oil that is shot into a cylinder but you could loosen all injector lines as in priming to get a bit of crank time.

You could shut off the fuel to the engine but some of the injector pumps are fuel cooled and lubed so be careful with that one.  If it has a fuel shutoff as it likely may, that should not be a problem.  Just pull it out and crank a bit until oil pressure comes up a little.

[MountainDon]

I realized I called the Optima a gel cell battery. I misspoke. It's an AGM... has liquid acid absorbed in a special glass mat material. 

[mvk]

Thanks everyone
It's a diesal, 3 cylender, MF40? pertty sure think it is an industrial machine built on a MF2200 farm tractor but thats kind of confusing to me. So not so big but big enough. I helped my friend on the addition so saw it work and it was pretty amasing, I was used to seeing big machines but this was the little hoe that could.

I have never owned a Diesal.

Glen  "A diesel may start and run or run away on any oil that is shot into a cylinder"? Not sure what you mean, did you mean that it might just fire up and i wouldn't want it to then because I would be trying to get the oil around in it first? "you could loosen all injector lines as in priming" If I do get some oil around and am ready to fire it up should I prime it , what about flooding can you do that with deisal? I guess you losen the intake to relieve pressure and make it easer to move fuel?

What about the fuel it's pretty old, and there could be a ton of it. Should I change it out. I heard you can burn it in your furnace?

I would need a battery so I was thinking about buying a new one for my car, I got a volvo to, peter. these guys wont buy one so I thought well if I don't get the hoe I could use the battery. But will I need a biger battery for the tractor. Could I just run jumpers over to there terminals or would it be better to hook it up?

It's about a hundred miles away so I can't just run over, and I'm going to wait till it warms up and I can get it out on the land. I have to get it down a pretty good hill, The first time I had it percked the guy almost flipped on wet leaves and he knew what he was doing so I don't want to try it in snow. Maybe If I get down that way I might take some pictures.  

Well last week colors, last night smiles, and today I did that two window thing so I could read what you all wrote while writing myself

Mike

PS Glen don't you be takin on that big fat one get a good rip

[glenn kangiser]

I was saying, don't get or put oil in the intake manifold such as to lube the cylinders like you might do in a gas engine, because the oil is what fires from compression in a diesel and if it gets into the intake manifold it will enter the cylinders and cause a runaway -- the engine will be impossible to shut down without blocking the air intake or exploding or running out of the oil (fuel).  Leave the fuel off if you want to crank up oil pressure.  When the fuel is turned on it will spray diesel into the cylinders and lube them fine.

Changing the fuel out could be good- diesel can take on moisture, but I don't usually have much problem with year old diesel.

Take plenty of tools - jumpers - extra battery - starting fluid -use very sparingly so you don't blow the head off.  Maybe 1/2 second squirt.  May not be necessary.

MF parts - got a new catalog - check out www.stpusa.net

[akemt]

Wow, I thought I would read through this thread but it is massive!  My husband is a mechanic with some fancy-shmancy modern certifications, but he really loves collecting odd and old cars.  LOL  He would love to do restoration for added income after we've gone mortgage-free, built a bit of a nest egg, gone off-grid, and are producing much of our own food.  It'd be fun.  Any of you experienced restoration guys willing to give some pointers or share your experiences as to how well it works for income?  We're hoping to kill our expenses, so that should help immensly, and he's hoping to kill his "40+ hour work week".

He drove an R-5 Renault around Alaska for a great long time after we were first married.  Liscence plate holder caption:  "Half the power.  Twice the style."  He's particularly fond of Renaults and DKW's and has various types of both.  If we finally buy land, build, and have money, I'm sure we'll be building a big 'ol shop shortly thereafter --bigger than the house, most likely!  And his dad will be shipping up all the cars he's got lying around his place in OR up to sit around my place.  I guess there's the incentive to let him build as big of a shop as he can --then I won't have to see the cars cluttering up my wooded lot! 

[glenn kangiser]

PS Glen don't you be takin on that big fat one get a good rip

I'll be exercising caution.

I have a couple cars your husband would like, akemt.  A 1919 Dodge Brothers roadster and a 1926 Dodge Brothers sedan.

Partial restorations on both - original.

[Sassy]

So akemt,  will you build your house or shop first? 

We have another place full of old vehicles, well drilling rigs, equip etc...

[akemt]

Heh, we've been thinking about that.  Weather is an issue for building here, so we'd want it dried in ASAP.  That means we'd want to pre-build in panels and pre-cut roof joists/beams, etc.  For that we'd have to have a shop.  LOL  The question is whether we'd build a small shop first to later become a storage shed or just build a big garage and be done with that.  I haven't been able to find garage plans on the site...suggestions there?  Might do a pole barn?

[glenn kangiser]

Depending on the size you need, you could just build the house shell if big enough or you may need to go to something bigger.  There are links to free barn plans here somewhere -- maybe in the free stuff.  I'm sure we can find some.

I assume you have snow loads ther to consider.  What size are you looking at?

Ken Kern recommended the shopfirst.  Temp living quarters and a place to work in one.