Some questions for the experts...first time poster

[wooddust]

3 years ago, I built a 16 by 16 cabin in the woods here in Missouri. I have a privy since at the time I was financially challenged as well as sure I wouldnt need more than that. Well, time has brought some changes...

Here is what I have to start with



from the back...

the cabin is 16 by 16 built on a concrete slab....Heat is wood stove. Here is a photo of the interior so you can see how I did cieling...

Since building it I have run water to a hydrant outside and have electicity. Plus now that I am retired I have more time to spend there and would like to add on to accomodate a couple things. And my dear wife wants me to add some creature comforts so she can spend more time there with me...Aint that special!

I plan to add on to the cabin..on the left side as you look at front view photo above.. The addition will accomodate bath/kitchen/bedroom area I want a shower/toilet/sink in a bathroom and I want to have a small kitchen area. The addition I'm considering would be 16 by 20. the bathroom would be approx 4 by 8. That would give me a 8 foot  "kitchen area" that could be bigger with an L shaped counter top..the kitchen basically needs a 24 in stove, refrig, and a sink....  Im drawing and re drawing this over and over currently.

Here are a couple issues Id like some help with:

I have to deal with cold/freezing and no heat when I am not there. So any plumbing will need to be drainable. How have others dealt with this? I anticipate using a 10 gallon electric water heater and will locate it above the cieling over the bathroom. How can I make sure all the lines are drained and water shut off when I am gone?

I will run the sinks and shower drains to daylight since there is no need to septic those.

I have an electric toilet that I bought at an auction made by Incinolet. Would you use the Incinolet or would you install a small septic tank and a conventional toilet? I can do eiither...Im leaning toward a 200 gallon septic tank and rough inm the plumbing but use the incinolet till I am comfortable they work....call me a skeptic.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[mclausen]

You can buy an attachment for blowing out water lines.  You use an air compressor with under 50 psi to do so.  Here is a link http://www.boatersland.com/cac-36104.html.  

As for the septic issue, I would check local code, but I am guessing if you install water inside the dwelling, they are going to make you put in some sort of compliant system before they will issue a building permit.  If you can get by with a holding tank for the toilet, you might as well put in a big one.  I am guessing it will cost about the same for pumping as a little one would.  More about mileage than gallons.  We ran out sink/showers in my dad's cabin into a sump drain and now have the option of pumping it outside into a drain field, or pumping it back into the main stack and out into the holding tank.  It just gives you options down the road.

I am not sure on your brand of electric toilet, but I know when I was looking at some of them you had to keep the air temp at a certain level all of the time for them to work properly.  You might want to research that as well.

[John Raabe]

Cabins have a way of growing up to become full-time houses. That growth is almost as inevitable as it is with kids.

For that reason it is usually best to build in the basic infrastructure that will be needed for the future. This can mean, not only a septic system, but one designed for one or two bedrooms more than the house might have now.

Long term an incinerator toilet is an expensive high maintenance item you will want to replace.

[Chateau Prideaux]

I have to agree with the costs of an incinerating toilet...
When I was researching this a couple weeks ago, I found some docs that lead me to expect over $100 electric bills just for the toilet.

I'm a sceptic on their lack of 'odour' as well. They don't call it 'ode d'toilet' for nuthin'  

Look a couple posts back for a thread on septic alternatives, I buried a funny story I found, in there.

You might also have some issues regarding the 'run to daylight' for graywater. In Travis County, Texas even gray water must be put into a covered drain field.

[desdawg]

I spent most of the past weekend insulating pipes and installing low point drains in a crawl space. Plumbing has ups and downs and will need to be blown out with air pressure as mclausen stated to clear the low places that won't gravity drain. If you haven't plumbed yet or have to replace any water lines use PEX tubing. I haven't used any yet but I have purchased some for future use. It is a polyethelene tubing that expands when freezing rather than bursting and the pipe has memory so when it thaws it will return to it's original size. Some plumbers I am aquainted with speak highly of the product for this use so I am trusting in their expertise.

[glenn kangiser]

I use PEX also -- it's great.  If any of it is exposed to sunlight be sure to tape it with 10 mil tape -cover it- etc.  UV will cause it to break in about 6 months to a year -- lots of checks -- cracks-

[desdawg]

I purchased the system with crimp fittings rather than the expansion fittings and rings. Is one preferable over the other Glenn? The tools for the crimp system were less expensive than the expansion type.

[glenn kangiser]

I haven't used the crimp style.  I have used a few of the nut, ferule and insert as in standard copper or plastic tubing style .  That worked fine.  I am a contractor (Uponor -Wirsbo requirement) so took the short schooling and got certified then bought the manual tool - about $300 I think including 3 sizes.  I am guessing that the stretch type fittings may be cheaper and possibly more leak free but I don't know.  When this stuff shrinks back to size after stretching it it really gets tight.  I don't recall ever having a leak.  I may have messed up one fitting or so but it's nearly impossible once you know how to do them right.

[Micky]

We setup all of our plumbing to drain with gravity (this would probably only work with a crawlspace).  Then used PEX incase I missed a spot.

Where the water line comes out of the ground into the cabin I put a stop & waste valve burried 3' into a 50 gal drywell.

In theory I should be able to turn off the water with the stop & waste, go around and open all of the faucets and it should all drain.  All of the lines from 3' below ground should be dry.

I guess I will know next spring.

[wooddust]

Thanks for the ideas....Mickey, that was my first inclination....just have a buried drain valve up line from the main water shutoff....after shutting off water, open the drain cock and then open the lines in cabin and let gravity do its thing.

The water heater is my biggest worry. draining it and shutting it off makes the most sense but not sure what residual water will be in tank and the impact of freezing on it?

[T]

They make a Tankless water heaters and but they are expensive. They say that over long term you make it back but not so sure if that is really true. I would think as long as the water had room to expand (once the tank was well drained) there wouldn't be much of a problem. I have done it in the past and got away with just fine (outside temps went into the negative). The tank drains are low enough that there really shouldn't too much water left anyways (just be sure to pop the pressure relief valve and allow the pressure to equalize when draining).

[Amanda_931]

I know people who love their tankless water heaters.  One woman thought that the payback (lower electricity bills) was less than two years with her (widely dissed) electric type.  I don't think she noticed a difference in the hot water.  And--kind of a biggie for her--she got more shelf space.

But--the more water you are trying to get, the faster the water goes by the heater element, the cooler it is.  And most of the varieties need a fair amount of water pressure, frequently more than the "minimum" pressure in the specifications.

How they are sited probably makes a difference as to how they drain.