Notching studs for let-in brace

[Ray_N]

How do I notch the studs (cleanly) for a let-in brace.  Skill saw and chisel seems a bit rough.

[PEG688]

  For 1x4 set depth to 13/16th ,kerf away, use your hammer claw to waste it out, get it  out ,( the chips)  set in , not set out , no bulge in s/r is the idea .

  Your not building a Steinway , if you are, make a jig , with a plunge router and rout out the waste area , but still make sure it does not project out so the S/R /wall  interior can not lay flush .
   Remember a bump on the exterior wall will seldom be seen , unles it is huge , a small bump in the kitchen cab area will be delt with by a few trades.  

[Amanda_931]

That's how I was taught to do it.  

A nicely sharpened wonderbar (Stanley's name) makes a pretty nice wide hammerable chisel for smoothing the bottom if you need to.  

[Jared Drake]

Instead of let-in bracing, why not just frame up the wall, square it and put a sheet of plywood at each corner to brace it?

[glenn kangiser]

Let in is the old way of bracing and keeping a smooth wall surface to put drywall or some type of siding directly to the stud wall.  

With the plywood diaphragm type bracing it goes on the surface so something must be used to even the wall out.

John mentions and tables posted show the plywood or OSB especially if glued to be many times stronger.  Also you get the added benefit of the OSB especially being enhanced with formaldehyde. :-/

[Ray_N]

The reason for the let-in brace for my case is that I am using 10' walls,  and the loft I want at 8' height.  So the let-it will be used to hang the loft joist until I nail them in.  

The added benifit of having the let-in the entire length of the building (I'm doing the 12x18) is also I can use it for a nice temporary platform while the roof is going up.

I'm open to other ways of putting up the joist, if anyone has done it differently with success.

Ray

[PEG688]

  Ah  Why didn't ya say it was a ledger  Still about the same way to do it .  


   I would add if your going to be knotching after the walls are stood up , which would seem to be the case , I'd  attach a guide to the wall to rest the saw shoe on , temperarely , for the lower cut at least and most importantly , figure in shoe to blade difference, set the guide strip, and depth of cut 1/16 th  strong (1 9/16 in this case) as before , then waste out the upper stuff even go a bit high ,16th or so, so your not fighting the knotch  top cut when you set the ledger in place.  Then just rest your ledger on that nice true lower cut  
  
   Good luck, PEG
  

[Amanda_931]

Can you still use a 1x4?

Or is there some wonderful Simpson connector that will do this at least as well?

[PEG688]

  Humm  I was assuming , ya I know ,ass-u-me that Ray would be letting in a 2x "what ever" his joist will be . With hangers the right size to do the job.

  I'd not think a 1x4 would work , like I said Ray thru me off with the"let in brace" line   Vice ledger which is more what he is meaning,I think

  Hope this helps Ray, good luck,PEG

[Ray_N]

Well I guess I'm opening up the whole can on worms on this one,  I'm doing baloon framing which is why I was asking about a let in.  Didn't mean to throw off.

I want to increase the room in the loft so I'm using 10' wall heights and putting the bottom of the loft at 8'.

I read that a 1x4 let-in is used to place my loft joist and of course I nail them in to the studs.  Of course I could Not let-in the 1x4, just nail it to the studs, put my joist up and nail them to the "inside" of the studs - as in the 4" side.

If there is a simpson bracket to do this that would do - would have to be something you can hide while finishing the inside wall.  A 1x4 nailed to the wall might be easier to finish around.

[peg_688]

 Ray if your going to use a 1x4 by all means let it in . I've seen that in old ballon framed homes and it will work for ya , I think(more on that later in the post). I don't think it would meet code here in my area . But maybe you don't need to meet code.

  I'd say you should solid block those stud bays at the 1x4 level to prevent fire spread , if it ever where to happen , fire that is .

  I'd suspect your doing a modified ballon frame , not  true ballon frame where the stud sit on the sill plate , and ran all the way to the attic. That was and is the problem with old ballon framing , the stud bay becomes  a fire chase to the attic , incased between plaster and exterior siding / sheathing . Fire in the basement, where most heating sourses where located ,spread quickly to the attic , the fatal error the the ballon frame , for more than just the house in some cases

   I'd probablly let in a 2x4 for that ledger your joist will sit on but as my tag line sez build it stout , but I've seen the 1x4 setup.  I'd add those old growth 1x4 where way stronger it all directions than any common fir / utility 1x4 you'll be able to buy today. So right out of the gate the wood you'll use is no where close to the old stuff.

  Good luck , have fun , PEG  

[glenn-k]

I did the balloon framing on my house addition in about 1980 or so --it worked fine with a let in 1x4 and joists nailed to studs also, and has never been a problem.  I agree with PEG - do let it in.  I wouldn't trust the second floor weight on nails.

I put in fire stops.  I did it for height savings and because I read about it in a book on framing and thought it was cool.

[Amanda_931]

Can you make your fire stops act as some sort of additional support for those joists?

Not sure quite how.  

[glenn-k]

I guess you could put them right under the joist and nail them through the studs as long as your wall below sealed them and it didnt leave more than an 8 foot (isn't that the code requirement on blocking??) space above or else you would need another row above.  The joists are on top the let in ribbon ledger and nail to the sides of the stud also.

You would only gain a few hundred lbs. or so with normal nails as they would slip and bend at that point -assuming 2 nails per fire block-- Ken Kern mentioned that ring shank nails hold about 9 or 10 times as much as I recall.

[Larry]

I did what I think you are talking about.  I actually went with 12 ft walls for more room upstairs.  I let in a 2x6 down both sides to support the second floor joists.
This worked very well.  I didn't think as far ahead as John and gang cut the notches before the wall went up.  Instead I just used two sticks, one the right height for the bottom cut and one the right height for the top cut.  Just rest the side of the saw on the stick and cuts came out great.  Just a whack with a hammer and the notch popped out.

I also did a temp. floor deck on the second floor very early on and this not only made the roof work much easier, but it gave me some shade and storage space on the first floor.  I only made one other change.  One end of the building is going to be an open beam made of 3 1/2 x 14 laminated beams.  I added an extra stud under each of these just to help pass the load to the floor.

Hope this makes sense and helps.

[jraabe]

Yes, Larry has done what I suggest in the plans. Let in a 2x6 for support. The old turn of the century builders let in a 1x into a 2x4 wall but they had better lumber and shorter spans than we now have with engineered joists.

The 1 1/2" notch gives plenty of support and still leaves lots of meat in a modern 2x6 wall.

Don't count on the shear of the nails for a surface mount ledger. Even ring shank don't help much on shear (they do have much stronger withdrawal resistance). Use lag screws, two per stud, if you have to do a bolt on ledger. However let-in is neater, stronger and less costly to build.

[peg_688]

  Thanks for the back up John  

  What I said, with a Arch stamp

  Thanks for the picture story Larry, keep at it , looks pretty good , keep it dry if you can   Your tring , having fun ?  Hope so