Hey PEG688 can you help here on the Rafter problem?

[Willy]

Being a builder in Washington State can you give a few hints on a Rafter attached to the side of a Ridge Beam/Header(?) like in my post on the Shed Roof. I want to go in with my plans tomorrow with the changes on them and was hoping not to make a fool out of myself. It is a shed roof design and I just want to put a header/beam to hold up the rafters in a space shorter than 10 ft on a 2x6 wall. All the porch & roof rafters were on top of the wall in the plans. I don't want to put them on top of the beam due to losing head room in the loft. Is there a hanger or special way of mounting them on the sides that is approved? I am not sure it a problem at all putting them on the side? The pitch is 12/12 on the 2X6 porch side and 5/12 on the 2X8 shed roof house side. Any ideas? I guess where I might think there is a problem is having a 12/12 on one side and a 5/12 on the other not being of equill side pressure on the beam and the rafters not sitting on top pushing straite down? Thanks, Mark

[PEG688]

#1: It is a shed roof design and I just want to put a header/beam to hold up the rafters in a space shorter than 10 ft on a 2x6 wall.

#2:  All the porch & roof rafters were on top of the wall in the plans. I don't want to put them on top of the beam due to losing head room in the loft.

#3:  Is there a hanger or special way of mounting them on the sides that is approved?

#4:  I am not sure it a problem at all putting them on the side?

#5:    The pitch is 12/12 on the 2X6 porch side and 5/12 on the 2X8 shed roof house side.

#6:    Any ideas?

  I'll try but I'm a little confused by some of your post.

#1: That line is confusing , the rafter will span 10' , and sit on a 2x6 wall?

#2: So you can't just lower the wall height and sit the rafters on the wall ?

#3: This rafter tie should work it's good to bend , on etime to 45deg.

   The LSU and LSSU series of hangers may be sloped and skewed in the field, offering a versatile solution for attaching joists and rafters. These hangers may be sloped up or down and skewed left or right, up to 45°.

     

link to similar others :

http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/LSU-LSSU.asp#gallery

  Or this one :



#4: No a A 35 would not work .

#5: The hangers should allow that.

#6:  A few , I guess.

  So can you clear up a few things , or does someting above work ? 

[Willy]

#1: It is a shed roof design and I just want to put a header/beam to hold up the rafters in a space shorter than 10 ft on a 2x6 wall.

#2:  All the porch & roof rafters were on top of the wall in the plans. I don't want to put them on top of the beam due to losing head room in the loft.

#3:  Is there a hanger or special way of mounting them on the sides that is approved?

#4:  I am not sure it a problem at all putting them on the side?

#5:    The pitch is 12/12 on the 2X6 porch side and 5/12 on the 2X8 shed roof house side.

#6:    Any ideas?

  I'll try but I'm a little confused by some of your post.

#1: That line is confusing , the rafter will span 10' , and sit on a 2x6 wall?

#2: So you can't just lower the wall height and sit the rafters on the wall ?

#3: This rafter tie should work it's good to bend , on etime to 45deg.

  Number 1; In that one I am saying I want to hold up the rafters from 2 roofs(porch and house) with a ridge beam that is not spanning more than 10 ft. The house side is just a shed roof design(SLOPED ROOF) with a 7 ft wall on the low side and a 12 ft wall on the high side. The rafters sat on top of these wall originaly. They took a 2x6 and angled down over the porch to cover it with and this rafter also went on top of this wall on one end. Now I would like to open up this 12 ft tall wall putting a ridge beam/header in for a loft that has more space using the porch roof to add to the space. I will change the lofts floor joists to 2x8s and put 3/4" plywood on them for a floor. I only have 6 ft of head room in the loft even tho I raised the walls 2 more feet in the last 10 ft of this shed roof design building to 9 ft and 14 ft. The inspector approved this allready but now I want to put a header in that wall to remove about 9 of the 2x6 studs for a open space across the loft which will now extend into the ceiling of the porch. If I put these rafters on top of this beam/header it will lower the head room right in the middle of the loft by around 10 more inches. This is why I want to put them on the side of it.

#2 I am only putting the beam/header in 10 ft of the 24 ft long wall. The rest of the wall (14 ft) will stay the same with the rafters on top of the wall because it does not affect head room.

#3 Those hangers look like they can do the job for holding the rafters onto the side of the beam/header.

#4 I was concerned that haveing 2 different pitches sitting on the side of this beam and not on the top may push un/equil loads and cause a problem?? Not sure if the rafters sitting on top like on the rest of the wall made a difference in the loading of the beam. I hope that makes sence to you?

#5 The roof pitches are different on each side of this beam/header(not sure what to call it) but the floor joists in the loft will be full length (18ft long) and nail to both sets of rafters(over the loft space) where they attach to the 9 ft outside wall plate and the porches ceiling joist beam on the posts. Using the full length floor joists I thought it would help stop any spread of the lower walls. I do not want to put collar ties in this area(due to head room) that is why I was going to use 3-10 ft long 2X10s for the ridge beam to support the rafters with. This beam will sit on 6-2x6 supports(3 at each end) that go to the floor below above piers in the foundation. It is hard to type discriptions of what I want to do. I will try to draw a picture of this and photo it for you. Mark

[PEG688]

I don't think the different pitchs make any or much difference.

Yes those hanger should work at the top for sure .

On the lower hanger could you go with a heavy duty hanger and cut a sort of seat cut to bear more area on the hanger? You'll have to cut those hanging rafters off either way for the tops to plane in with the remaining rafters if I'm following you right.

A drawing sure whould make it easier , if it's a good one , to get a better "look" at thyewhole working of what we are typing about.

  I can't find the exact # but we get them with truss packages the metal is heavier gauge , we hang sissor truss off of them , off girder trusses they'd hold way more weight then you'll need.     

[PEG688]

Of course right after I posted the last I found the hangers 





Link : http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/HTU_PT.asp

[Willy]

I don't think the different pitchs make any or much difference.

Yes those hanger should work at the top for sure .

On the lower hanger could you go with a heavy duty hanger and cut a sort of seat cut to bear more area on the hanger? You'll have to cut those hanging rafters off either way for the tops to plane in with the remaining rafters if I'm following you right.

A drawing sure whould make it easier , if it's a good one , to get a better "look" at thyewhole working of what we are typing about.

  I can't find the exact # but we get them with truss packages the metal is heavier gauge , we hang sissor truss off of them , off girder trusses they'd hold way more weight then you'll need.     

OK here is some rough drawings I was working on but should show the idea. Mark

[PEG688]

  Whats this big open area for? The 10 span deal area? loft view looking  which way ??





A regular ridge board should work here I'd think , the rafters would off set / hold each other up . A bearing wall at the sort of center I'd guess.






  I know here in the PNW we'd have issues with that porch with lateral bracing , we'd add 4x4 diagonal bracing it would have to extend down 4' IIRC if the posts where longer than 6 feet.
 

  I think if you could extend a  2x4 looking rafter tail over that beam then cut plumb cut / seat cut on a 2x12 rafter , gets your over hang figured in , omits the lower hanger down to a H1 , raises the beam some what .

[Willy]

The big open space is the loft area and the opening is facing the front of the building or twords the porch. I am calling it storage on the plans. The porch has 6X6s every 6 ft holding up the roof over it.
I am not sure what you mean with the 2X12 and rafter tail part in the last comment?

[PEG688]

Your showing  a eave overhang , if you kill your rafters into the beam you'll either lose that or have to use dummy tails which tend to be weak.

So your rafter tail would be a cut down part of your 2x12 rafter.   

Something like this :

[Willy]

Your showing  a eave overhang , if you kill your rafters into the beam you'll either lose that or have to use dummy tails which tend to be weak.

So your rafter tail would be a cut down part of your 2x12 rafter.   

Something like this :

Does this view help? Picture the 2x8s on the posts knotched into them instead of on the surface. Now also the 2x6 ceiling on the porch is only 2x6 for 14 ft of it the last 10 ft will be 2x8s. Some of the details in this drawing are not to scale yet. Mark

[PEG688]

So I'm way off base ?

one thing NTS drawings give you is false hope / perspective as you just draw things so they fit well together , when in reality they conflict with each other.

I thought you wanted to die into the beam at the porch , I was showing a way to get both the rafter tail / eave overhang and insulation space all while  raising the head space under the beam . So maybe I'm confused.   

[Willy]

The detail in the plans was pretty slim for figuring out the wood joints. All I did was raise up the roof line in one area. I did make changes to those 2x8s being just scabed on the sides of the posts. I was going to knotch them into the posts so they would bear on wood instead of just nails. The way the porch roof is done the inspector approved allready with it being knotched. He said I could go with 4X4s but I wanted 6X6s instead. The porch was never intended to be living space just storage on the original plans. I decided to extend the loft into part of it so I beefed up the ceiling to 2X8s in that area for insulation reasons. The had a opening into the porch over hang from the house. I was putting plywood down inside it so you could craw easier. Then I had this brain storm to remove some of the studs to make the loft space wider and extend it into the porch overhang. This loft is realy storage space but you could sleep up there if you wanted to. I added another opening into the porch over hang that is not the loft for more storage space. Mark

[Willy]

So I'm way off base ?

one thing NTS drawings give you is false hope / perspective as you just draw things so they fit well together , when in reality they conflict with each other.

I thought you wanted to die into the beam at the porch , I was showing a way to get both the rafter tail / eave overhang and insulation space all while  raising the head space under the beam . So maybe I'm confused.   

Yes and no but who knows at this point(Ha Ha) the whole thing is hard to explain if your not sitting next to each other pointing stuff out as you talk. The main thing for me was attaching the house side rafters to the side of the ridge beam above the house outside wall. The outside porch beam sorta had the rafters & floor joists sitting on top of the 2X8s bolted inside the knotches and yes this drawing is off some what on true detail aspect. I was going to re/draw a new detail tonight to take in. These were just some cut and copy paste stuff for a idea to look at. I did not want to spend the time drawing rafters off the side of the beam if it was not sorta OK to do this. Mark

[Willy]

Darn you reminded me about the 2X6 porch rafters and there insulation problem! I guess I have to make them deeper also!! See what I mean it keeps changing as you think more about it. Mark

[PEG688]

Thats why quick sketchs and random ideas need balanced with scaled drawings .
With what I've given  you for ideas you should be able to get some thing figured out. 

[Willy]

Thats why quick sketchs and random ideas need balanced with scaled drawings .
With what I've given  you for ideas you should be able to get some thing figured out. 

Yes sir and I thank you. Now I need to do some drawings and see if that little 6X10 ft extra space is worth all the extra wood and work. I can still have the space just not heat it and leave the wall there. By putting the access door into the porch attic up in the loft it is only unheated attic space. Mark