Mini-split sizing

[Adam Roby]

At least baseboards, although can be ugly, are cheap.  The wiring probably costs more than the heaters themselves.  Still, having to install them just for the legality of it must be frustrating.  I can see the baseboards being a good backup in the event you run out of wood or have to leave the fire unattended for a period of time.

[NathanS]

On the East coast most insurance companies will not cover a residence unless there is some other type of heat besides wood.  Not sure what their reasoning is other than water lines will freeze if the wood heat is left unattended.  But in the same reasoning there is several and I mean several outside wood fired boilers or furnaces that convert the heat to either hot water baseboard or forced air.  They apparently are covered. 

I had even heard that one gentleman bought a house, installed a wood stove and removed the furnace.  Now he is trying to sell the house and has to install a more permanent heat source before lenders will loan money for the new owners.  He is putting electric baseboards in.  I guess if the house sells the new owner can remove the baseboards and go primarily wood.  But they should store the baseboards I guess.   

There is not always a rhyme or reason when it comes to insurance.. I used to price that stuff in a prior life.

At least baseboards, although can be ugly, are cheap.  The wiring probably costs more than the heaters themselves.  Still, having to install them just for the legality of it must be frustrating.  I can see the baseboards being a good backup in the event you run out of wood or have to leave the fire unattended for a period of time.

There is a real chance we will go this route. I am pretty sure it is the most inexpensive option, though heating systems are one of the weakest areas of my research. A modern wood cookstove will last the rest of my life, heat the house, cook our food in the winter, and heat our hot water (eventually). A modest sized house that is well insulated will not require more than 1-2 full cords per winter, which is not the horror of processing 5-7-10 cords that people in old huge houses have to contend with.

I have read a lot that makes me think you are better off putting more money into insulation (and air tightness), and then going for a smaller, simpler, heating system. At one point I was thinking radiant floor heat, then after reading up on it, I came to find out that the temperature of your floor in a well insulated house will feel no more comfortable with radiant heat than without. Minisplit + 2" of exterior rigid foam costs less than no foam and radiant floor heat.

Anyhow, these are just my personal thoughts, and everyone's equation is different. For us it's all about being independent with no debt. I don't give a damn about water tubes running through my slab. 

[Adam Roby]

FWIW - My old house had base board heaters, it was 1150 sqft home and was brand new, well insulated and had a good vapor barrier.
My current house is around 2400 sqft, has an electric furnace with a electric heat pump, is 30 years old, not all that well insulated and has no vapor barrier, however we spend a bit less in electricity that we did in the previous house.  So I think the efficiency of the heat pump compared to the baseboard heaters is a bigger factor in our case than the insulation.  That said, I hate furnaces... more maintenance issues, loud as all hell, and is extremely expensive to replace or repair.... a baseboard takes 10 minutes to swap out and costs $30-$50 for a nice one.  If it is for emergency or temporary heat, most definitely I would lean towards the easier and least expensive option of baseboards.

[NathanS]

Good info, thanks Adam.

That was my other concern, the maintenance issues and lifetime of the machine. I'd hate to spend a lot of money on something that is hardly used, and then still have to replace it with another expensive system in 10-15 years.

I have considered running ducts 'just in case' to try to future proof the house if we ever decide we should have put in a fancier heating system.

[Adam Roby]

If you were already considering a heat exchanger, or air circulation system, then perhaps it would be possible to size the ducts so that a future "upgrade" could make use of the same duct work.  I am no HVAC expert so this is merely a guess.

For your info, my house had a furnace but it was too small (there were baseboards upstairs), and there was no AC unit.  We had to add ducts through the second floor to the attic, then pipe through the ceiling of all the bedrooms.  We upped the furnace to a 12,000 BTU I believe, and put in a 3 ton AC/Heat pump.  In total it was close to $12,000 for the install, and I had problems from the get go.  Installer was a complete buffoon, I had to redo some of his installation because it was flooding the basement with the humidity from the AC.  I have problems with freezing in the winter, bad vibrations and the outside unit fills with ice.  I only did this 3 years ago and the company is long gone, can't go back against anyone and all the local guys won't touch it because they did not do the installation.  Complete nightmare...  I will never go furnace again.  People complain about the baseboard heaters being too dry of a heat... I'll add a humidifier, maybe a heat exchanger with humidifier... you can easily control each room in a house for the exact amount of heat, compared to a furnace that has 1 thermostat, and closing vents is not a perfect science.

[NathanS]

Thanks again Adam.

That is insane, $12k for less than nothing - loads of stress.

I am planning to caulk/gasket the drywall and create a good air barrier. I do want potential HRV ducts installed in case there are air quality problems that can't be resolved with cracking a window downstairs and upstairs. Still, I prefer to monitor air quality, humidity levels, and try to take care of things with my brain before I hire a bunch of temperamental machines to do the work.

Most of the town we live in is on a community coop electric - .033 cents per KW. Unfortunately our property is outside the service area and we're stuck with the big boys. That would have made things simple.

There certainly is no limit on how much you can spend on a house.

[Dave Sparks]

In California, you can't legally pass plan check, let alone get a certificate of occupancy, let alone get insurance without a primary source of heat that is not electric or gas.  I would think New York is the same. What is that Title xxx for the building energy calcs? Brain is wanting a beer and some taco's now!

[NathanS]

REScheck?

I can't find where I read it, but I thought I read that you do need a programmable thermostat that can maintain 66F or something...

The Amish pretty much get to do whatever they want, though. I talked to one code officer that said he is more lenient because of that.

[Dave Sparks]

Home depot has propane natural gas wall units 10 to 40 KBTU and up that have a thermostat, they are small/cheap, need zero electricity, and that is how I have got around code requirements in many offgrid homes that were inspected. Good luck

[MountainDon]

They fit into the stud bay and after inspectioncan be hidden with various means. When left turned off of course. In many small older homes here in NM they are often the sole heat source. Propane or
NG.