Rick and Ellen's Shop at the Ranch

[MountainDon]

You may have stated before, but what's your altitude there?


Nice to be dealing with someone as thoughtful as the concrete finisher. Probably did nice work too.

[glenn kangiser]

Nice to find a good concrete man.  It looks good.

[rick91351]

MD we are right at 5000 ft there where we are building. 

[OlJarhead]

Great site!

One question:  100 trees in an acre?  I'm so new to gardening and growing fruit trees that I can barely tell one tree from the other but if you can put 100 apple trees in one acre I'm thinking "Awesome!"  Since I'd like to put in a few trees on our 20 acres.

Though my biggest problem is that I can't pump massive amounts of water in August-September without putting my pump a lot further down in the well and even then I might not pump a lot more.  I'm trying to rig it up so I can pump maybe 50+ gallons every couple hours for 100 to 300 gallons a day depending on how I set the timer (and what I find works) but I've only got a 1000 gallon tank so have to factor that in.

I think a tree needs about an inch of water a week -- if what I remember is correct from my reading -- but I have no idea how many gallons that translates too....

Anyway, don't mean to highjack the thread but that comment really caught my attention

Nice land by the way!

[MountainDon]

One question:  100 trees in an acre?  I'm so new to gardening and growing fruit trees that I can barely tell one tree from the other but if you can put 100 apple trees in one acre I'm thinking "Awesome!"  Since I'd like to put in a few trees on our 20 acres.

Partly it depends on the type, normal size, semi dwarf or dwarf. Anywheres from 90-100 regular up to 400+. In Europe some orchards with dwarf trees are measured in the thousands.   Our pines were in the 500+ trees per acre range before we started thinning.

[MushCreek]

One inch of water over an acre equals 26,968 gallons(!) 

[rick91351]

The orchard is a good hobby for us right now.  We lease the ranch out at this time.  So the orchard does give us a point of real possession, and real responsibility.  And it is a good reason just to go up there.  Next year I am planing on retiring from the railroad as my primary vocation.  (No intentions at all of retiring from work at all.)    So next year or the year after we will build a house up there and move.

The fruit trees only require about 5 gallons of water once a week when they maturing.  When they get rooted good and depending on somethings I have not learned as of yet, do require I understand a little more.  Depends sort of what is happening at the root level.

We do not pump water from the well for the orchard.  We capture water from a spring that feeds these two home made stock water tanks.  They in turn overflow unto a overflow pipe in the center of the lower one or closest to the camera.

 

From there the water is then piped via gravity to a Craigslist Special used 1200 poly tank.  We do pump out of it via a hand me down jet pump.



This is the orchard a couple years ago.  Before we hooked the spring up to the poly tank.  Trees are starting to really take off now.  The deer fence is eight foot tall, we got by pretty good deal there.  My buddy that owns the lumber yard had a lot of used field fencing from his acreage that he just gave me.  But I bought the big long posts from him.  I had the gates sitting around.  We use them for panels and things like that on the ranch.  I am kind of like Glenn and all the rest of the scroungers on the forum.  One reason I like this forum so much feels like home!       

[glenn kangiser]

If there are water problems then the trees should be on drip irrigation with timers.  We get one gallon a minute from our well but still manage to get water to 35 or so trees and lots of garden area.  I use a Raindrip analog timer that is very easy to set and change and is battery operated.

[rick91351]

Most publications I have read discourage the use of drip line for fruit trees.  I have talked to several orchard men they also promote the five gallons once a week.  This promotes deeper root growth and better anchored trees.  That said if I were Ol' Jarhead and wanted to grow some fruit trees the drip line is a very good option.  Especially where he is not there as much as he wants to be right now.  I think it is a great hobby and very rewarding as well.

Several years ago we tried some fruit trees with very limited success.  Certainly not to the degree we have here.  But since then I have done a lot of reading and talking to people, not at the nurseries at the big-box, but real orchard growers  (Some of those big box people do know a lot and are very good.)  Our success is tremendous this time around.  I am learning a lot about fruit trees.  I now know what root stocks will work for us up there and which ones to stay away from especially in the apples.  I know to use the times when we are watering to look at the leaves and the bark.  You can see what each tress is telling you from it leaves.  The leaves tell you if it is stressed, does it need fertilizer, which insects are feeding on it, is it getting to much water or not enough.  The bark can tell you a lot as well.  Stuff you just learn asking questions and reading.  Learning about something is not hard when you know nothing about it.  Those that go to something thinking they know something sort of spooks me.....  

We have plenty of water of everything in the orchard area, if we use the holding tank.  If we do not use the holding tank and use the well it takes all day or seems so!    That spring we never have measured how much it runs.  However we have emptied out the 1200 gallon tank on the evening to do plumbing and the next morning it is up to the over flow.  Plus have cattle and wild life drinking out of the stock tanks.  Granted spring and early summer not so much the wild life and cattle for that matter at the tanks.  However this time of the year when the interment creeks have all dried up they know where all the stock water tanks are.

I am certainly not against timers and drip lines.  We do use a multi-station timer on a drip line for the berries that we have growing around the perimeter of the orchard fence.  We have four different verities of raspberries and one verity of blackberry at this time and will add more berries next spring.  They were certainly way down on our time line.  Our blue berries however we deep water water once or twice a week out of the holding tank.

Also we are not all Nazi about the water.  'You stupid trees you only get five gallons of water so ration it.'  If the temp is up there are hovering up there in the nineties for a couple weeks as it does some years in late July and Aug. or may be a couple days even in the century mark.  We well especially give the young ones a little more attention.  However a 5000' in the Idaho mountains as soon as the sun down you are look for a coat.  Meaning you do not have a lot of night time evaporation.  

[glenn kangiser]

If you ever need to be away keep in mind that you can set the timer and drippers to apply 5 gallons once a week with the proper drippers and amount of time.

[rick91351]

I made it up to the property today September 16, 2010.  The shop is defendantly starting to take shape from over on the road!



The framing is done except for the Douglas Fir beams that will be headers over the two drive doors.  And of course the trusses.



Next Tuesday the trusses are to be here.  The guy that did the excavation is also a logger and will bring over his self loader and swing the two beams and the trusses or so is the plan.



I went over to his sawmill today, these are logs we have harvested off our property for the last two years.  He has them decked there.  We have been saving them up to use for the 'board and bat' siding on the shop.  What we do not use there will be used in a couple more sheds we are going to do like a chicken coup and maybe a start on a new live stock barn.  They were all beetle killed pine.



Some more of our logs going into the sawmill on the feed chain.



I got over there just in time for a break down.  He did have the two beams cut out of Doug Fir before the carriage in the mill hooked a hydraulic line and pulled a lot of stuff loose.  They will be unbending and welding into the night.

[glenn kangiser]

Good on the progress on the shop Rick.  Pretty fast.

Looks like he has a - what.. 48 inch or so circular sawmill?

If you get a chance - pix of it would be nice too.

[rick91351]

Good on the progress on the shop Rick.  Pretty fast. 

I really wished I was there all the time to help or to do it.  However I had such a narrow window to get this done and dried in.  I really did not have much choice but to proceed as I am.  Next year we should be on the house right now.  The shop needs to be completely done for that.  (I do have a time line to get everything done in.)  Top that with my real vocation my boss says  I really need to protect my assignment 

Looks like he has a - what.. 48 inch or so circular sawmill?

I don't know how big his saw is, or how big his head rig is or (how big a tree it will take).  I have helped him there in the mill a little, and he can squeeze some pretty big logs in there.  Actually he has a portable band saw mill set up inside the saw mill as well.  That way he can roll the cants off the carriage on to the band saw mill if he wants to or needs to.  He uses it most the time like sort of like a resaw.

If you get a chance - pix of it would be nice too.

I have wanted to do just that.  I have access to a couple of these old saw mills.  I think it would be a very good thing to show the process of falling, bucking, skidding, loading, sawing and then the boards....  Certainly would not be a modern computerized mill but one that could be utilized in such a fashion especially if the going gets much rougher. 

I did sneak up there today and I noticed it is getting fall.....





So rather than help with the building. I opted to till around fruit trees and apply liquid fertilizer.     Have you ever looked around and the summer has slipped away?  Or is it just me?         

[rick91351]

The trusses are up.  My friend the logger brought over his self loader logging truck.  They had them up and pretty well secured in a couple hours.





Our beams we used over the doors for headers worked very well I think.  The trusses company liked our design and notched out those trusses for them.





We also got a load of boards and battens from the sawmill.

[glenn kangiser]

Looks good.  I plan to do some board and bat.  There are old houses around here with board and batten that are over 100 years old. 

[rick91351]

I can not say enough good about John's booklet titled READ ME FIRST that comes with the Whole Enchilada Plans.

After reading and rereading and digesting it several times I have had a whole different attitude biting off this project.  Number one I have had to come to terms I have to hire it done.  It is that simple.  Because of time constants and other items on my plate it just was not do-able.  I might have the foundation poured by now if it were just me.  So in effect I have had to act as the general contractor.  I have had to do so on several projects in the past.  That 'aint hard' I guess and I gain more confidence in each of these projects.  I am there some times to help - sometimes to just answer questions and some time be the gopher.  I have had to make the drive out and in and out and in in the same day over the years several times.  (Mostly having to do with building.)  I am not below cleaning up, toting boards or helping pour concrete.... I still love to do that....

This time around I have really taken it to heart from John's booklet and it really helped me get a grasp on this project. "Your highest use is not pounding nails or pulling wire but carefully controling the money flow and getting the best materials and labor for the money you spend.

I work full time for Union Pacific Railroad and am gone a lot.  When I am here this time of the year I am up at the ranch.  Yes it is a real ranch but until now bare ground --- well from the time my wife and I tore down the last barn.  (My dad built it in the late thirties)  And I burnt down the last house a couple years ago it has been just bare ground with the exception of one small shed.  Though we do lease it out, there are still certain things we have to do.

This shop is the first of the building steps we have to take to move up there full time next year when I retire.  Up until now every thing has been underground.  Septic is in, 1200 feet of poly pipe and frost frees are buried and is about that much direct burial wire and 500' of 220 conduit to our RV pads.   A well of sorts is in, we are still questioning if we are going to have to re-drill or huge tank -- that is another tread in the future.

So last Saturday we took the last of the lumber package up.  Then we came back down and I went to work that night.  I worked home the following night got in Monday morning.  I got a couple hours sleep and got up and headed off to the ranch again.  This time stopping off at Costco picking up some RV batteries for the fifth wheel - those lasted huge - since 2004 - but they were done.  The builder and his helper had made very good progress I thought.

House wrap is on the south and east sides and the boards are started on the east side.
 
East side



South end



My wife and I took time to get the berries fertilized.  They are coming along very well.  I am hoping that the black berries we picked out will handle the winters up there.  About four thirty I knocked off and ran over to the store and got the builder and his helper some soft drinks and ice cream.  It was very hot and they had put in a very full day.  We got our stuff loaded up and came out as well this time with the flat bed.  We will have to haul up the metal roofing next.     

I did get the metal roofing ordered today.  We will be able to pick it up Friday morning.  My builder says he can not believe how smooth this whole thing has gone except for one day with the building inspector who is sort of confused on code for what we are building.  I think that all has been resolved.  We are getting everything ready for the autumn - into the winter thing.  As soon as we get a few storms we will get some more fire wood cut.    If all goes correctly we will be living up there this time next year and working on the new house...  

[MountainDon]

Very cool indeed Rick   

[astidham]

what type of siding is that? I like it.

[rick91351]

Thanks; that is simply rough sawed Ponderosa Pine that was harvested from our property that had been beetle killed.   The blue is a stain caused by a natural fungus. It is completely harmless in most cases.  Don_P I think mentioned one client he had that had a reaction to it.  That is the only case I ever heard of.  There is a hint here and there of it on PineCones latest posting as well.

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=8030.120

All the walls will also receive battens or 'bats' as we call them. 

[glenn kangiser]

I use the blue stain with no problem too, Rick.  Looking great.

[MountainDon]

There are people who will pay extra for the blue stain.  Back home it was called silver pine. I sorted a truck load of 1x's at the local lumber yard one summer. made three piles/grades. No blue/silver or very little, lots of blue/silver and a medium amount. The medium amount was for me. I got it at the non blue/cheaper price.

[rick91351]

Very interesting time up at the ranch and the shop.  Someone apparently notified country building and zoning that we have deviated from our building permit and are building a structure to live in.  Next some one notified them we are building an apartment or living quarters up there in those trusses.  Though I can not find who my accuser is I do know the county is getting a little ticked having to send some one up to take a look.  We just laugh.  We did have a set of plans with a one bed room apartment over a  garage that we had showed to a lot of people up there as something we might build. 



I am still trying to figure out where the master bath goes and the master bed room    I think I found a spot for the breakfast knook! 

We did get the paper on the roof in between rain squalls. 



Joseph the laborer cut off a about a twenty inch piece and it floated to the ground.  I went and got it and carefully rolled it up and placed it in the burn pile and kidded him about wasting my valuable building materials.  Be danged I had to go get that piece.  We were just about 14" inches short.  Kuna Lumber sent just enough; thanks Dave.....

Pat my logging, excavating friend came back over and finished up back filling and dressing things up



Everything drains away from the building straight to an intermittent creek or hooks around to the intermittent creek.

Pat had another job going or several others, no one has informed him there is a recession so he loaded up the excavator after I had him dig out another about forty yards of material in case we need it.

             

 

[Bishopknight]

Wow amazing job guys! Love all the progress pics. This is the most fun part to watch for me.

[John Raabe]

Looking good and fine progress!

Isn't it always an exciting adventure? Problems and opportunities, they just keep rolling in... sometimes in clumps.

Great looking country.

[rick91351]

Thanks BK and John.  It is a neat time to be doing this.  I just wish I could be up there all the time to help out. 

My folks always wanted to do this but my dad could never come to terms of living up there in the winter again.  My mom on the other hand would have lived up there year round in a sheep herder tent I think.

My Grandfather who was a real cowboy.  That was his vocation, his real nick name was even Rawhide.  I am not making that up.  He went to his grave hardly ever called George but he was Raw or Hide or Rawhide.  He did homestead part of this property.  (Where this is being built is on his 180 acre homestead.)  He was the first non Indian child up there.  He came up there strapped on a cradle board strapped to a pack saddle.  My grand father received as a gift 80 acres from his mom when she lost her part of the ranch during the depression.  Great grandfather homesteaded this around 1887.  So I am the forth generation to own part of this property.

Family outing in the 1890.  My grandfather is the little guy ridding doubling in the back.   





Same spot today.  I took that picture just after a huge wind we occurred coming out.  I had to stop as it was blowing so hard it was actually blowing sagebush across the road then suddenly zero visibility.  Then it quit as quickly as it started, calm as could be.  It was a Kodak moment.  I jumped out and started taking pictures.  Ellen down loaded the photos when we got in and matched this up with an old family photo.  Year was unknown but would have been 1890s some time.  I knew where that old photo had been taken but never actually tried to match it up.  Sort of one of those God things.