Cabin Design for Camp and Adult Retreat Center

[SHUBUTAKID]

Have a dilemma.  Am a physician who has been working with a nonprofit organization that seeks to increase lodging space for a kids' camp and adult retreat center.  Because funds are limited, I have sold the group on the idea of building cabins that can be loaded with bunk beds in the summertime and queen-sized beds other times of the year. 

However, I've become convinced that moving beds in and out of cabins will be inefficient (and have a property manager who is groaing over the idea of doing so).

Original idea was to construct 48' X 40' four-roomed cabins with showers and toilets located centrally (can send you diagram of cabin if you email me -- forum site will not accept it).  Newer idea is to try to build in lofts with bunk beds (lower bunk to be just 6" above loft-floor level to lessen overall heighth of cabin). 

Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.  If we can come up with a design that excites both kids and adults, it will go a long way toward making an upcoming capital fund drive a success.

Tom
derm_doc@sbcglobal.net

[glenn kangiser]

Welcome to the forum, Tom.

You can put your diagram here if you put it in Photobucket first then paste the IMG tag at the bottom of the pix to your message.  Info in the forum news section on posting photos. Seems like very large cabins -- are they dorm type cabins.  How many kids or bunks?

[MountainDon]

  Tom.

The upload an image feature is disabled. Images are easy to add to messages as Glenn indicated, using Photobucket.   Follow this link. for the tutorial

[John_C]

Welcome to the forum.  A few things that would help folks here make suggestions.

You didn't say where this was or if the non profit org. wanted to do the construction themselves.  If you have codes & inspections to deal with you will probably be required to have a licensed contractor do the construction and licensed plumbers & electricians as well. That is very often the case even in areas where an owner builder can do all the work on his own residence.  The architect - engineer - building dept. - contractor route is seldom compatible with "limited funds".

If you are free of Imperial entanglements you could consider ways to make it easier for a relatively inexperienced crew to build the structure(s).  A 40' wide building would probably use roof trusses and would require a crane to set them.  In a remote, wooded area that can be a headache.  Three or four  500 - 700 sq. ft. buildings in a cluster might be more practical.  That would be just one example. The more information you can give the more relevant the responses will be. 

[John Raabe]

A time proven way to build an organization's community as well as save money is to have well structured work parties where the adults and kids work together to build the cabins they will be using themselves. This takes organization and the right regulatory environment but lends itself to lifetime memories.

[SHUBUTAKID]

Thanks for all your comments and encouragement so far.  I realize that you need many more specifics from me, and I'm working on some rough drawings this afternoon that I hope to post a little later today with the help of Photobucket where I've already registered.

Work parties are an excellent idea for building esprit de corps among us all.  I have been championing the idea of our listing a wood-working shop among our priorities (we have had a 50' X 80' metal building donated which I want to put on the back corner of our property and that will house, among other thing, such a shop.  I've already had a couple of men familiar with wood-working shops help me with the floor plans for it.)  Yesterday afternoon the board approved Phase I of the developmental plan that includes the shop.  My argument, similar to John Raabe's comments, is that it will attract guys to the project and give them some ownership in being part of the group.  So, I agree whole-heartedly with the work-party concept.

As stated earlier, the goal will be to have a cabin that serves both as a kids' cabin in summer and has a comfortable feel for adults during other times of the year.  We are rural enough to likely not have to worry too much about the imperial entanglements.  We have the potential of having lots of volunteers involved -- some of whom will be experienced builders.  I suspect we will end up with a mixture of hired help and volunteers doing the work. 

There is a similar organization 3 hours north of us who does all of their own building and uses loft space very creatively.  Talked with their young builder this a.m. and he stated that if I use a 5 to 12 roof slope, I will have plenty of space overhead to add beds (or even bedrooms).  He says they put all of their bathrooms centrally (which we already plan to do) with the lofts overhead.  Their bathrooms have 8' ceilings.  He uses 2' X 6" 's over bathrooms to make floor of loft space.  Recommends that I draw out roof line to see if the look is really what I wish to have.  I'm in the process of playing around with the roof lines at the moment -- and with trying to figure where the stairs would go.

Our property manager would, I think, simply like to put some ladders up the walls and let the kids climb up to a sardine-like space to sleep.  I'm sure this keeps our costs at a minimum but,  if we can come up with a creative, handsome, inviting cabin (while staying within our budget) it will go a very long way in determining how successful we are -- both for fundraising and in attracting groups who want to use our facilities.  "Staying in budget" is a very difficult thing to figure first time around because I truly to think we will have lots of volunteer work donated.  I base this on the fact that we are in the midst of remodeling two lodges and we've had LOTS of folks volunteer for this greatly diminishing our labor costs. 

Cabins will be going into fields around shores of a pond.  Access to cranes will not be a problem (though in my naivete, I didn't realize we would need one).

Before returning to the drawings, I do have a couple of basic questions.  If we use our loft space for additional sleeping quarters, what then is the best way to insulate the ceiling?  Also, I'd guess that there are standard roof pitches.  (I'm not even sure my 5 to 12 terminology is correct.  If so, would a 7 to 12 roof also be a standard pitch?  I believe someone stated that it is more expensive to build a steeper roof.  Could someone please elaborate on other pros and cons of steeper roof pitches?

More later (hopefully in just a few hours) -- and many thanks again.

Tom

[John_C]

In rough terms....

Roof pitches 4 in 12 or greater will permit the use of almost any roofing material without special considerations.

I've probably seen more 6/12 and 8/12 than 7/12 but there is no reason not to use 7/12 if it works for your building.

By 7 or 8/12 walking a shingle roof will be a problem for most folks.  Some can walk a 12/12, I was never one of them.  Walking a 5/12 is not too difficult.  Most metal roofing is more difficult to walk than shingles.

Steeper roofs shed water and debris better and the roofing materials will probably last a bit longer.  In some areas you can reduce the anticipated snow load if the roof is steep enough.

Where to insulate will vary with local conditions, your preferences, budget etc..  If you have 2x10  or 2x12 rafters you can use batt insulation in the rafter bays.  There are attic trusses where the insulation "surrounds" the heated space.  You can use rigid foam on top of the roof sheathing in some cases essentially building a second roof. To use a phrase popular on the forum  "It Depends".

[SHUBUTAKID]

Here are the diagrams / plans of the camping lodge.  We will have a dining room in a separate building, so there is no kitchen here.  I've pictured four bunk beds up in the loft along with a couple of queen beds on the lower floor.  All the plumbing is located on the lower floor.  Have the front entrance covered, and would like to do the same on the back of the cabin.  Will likely not do so because of added expense.

Also pictured the lower floor with bunk beds and no adult furniture.

I'm open to any suggestions you may have.  Hopefully there will be some obvious gaffes that need correcting that you guys can alert me to.  And, better yer, maybe you will have an entirely new idea of how we can go about this project.

Appreciate you.

Tom













ED:
fixed image links -MD

[Southern Steve]

Shubutakid:   Great thoughts.  I realize your plans are in the rough stages at present, but would urge you to consider all building/fire codes in your area that have to do with housing/sleeping people in new construction.  Most states have them and some are stringent, even for "camps".  This is true of single story installations, but even more so with multi-story facilities.  Another concern I would have initially is that some provision be made for ADA accessibility, specifically, steps, exits/entrances, and access to toilets/showers.

Best of luck in your project.

Steve

[MountainDon]

... ADA accessibility, specifically, steps, exits/entrances, and access to toilets/showers.

Oooh, never though of that. Being of what could be considered a commercial or public nature that could indeed be a design factor. Definitely need to be sure on that.