20x 30 1 1/2 story- in Lac-Des-Plages, Quebec

[sharbin]

Hello all,

This is the first time I post here, though I've been reading this forum for more than a year now. Great stories, great friendships, great forum.

I am contemplating the idea of having cathedral style ceiling in the loft area of the 20x30 1 1/2 story cottage, as demonstrated in the illustration. Have any one done that? If so, what was the hight used to put the rafter ties? what lumber dimension was used for the ties and rafters. Note that I live in Quebec, Canada were we have lots of snow.

Many thanks.

Sharbin

[glenn kangiser]

Welcome to the forum, Sharbin.  Over a year hmm  wow ...didn't know we were that entertaining.

Heavy snow load would likely make you want to keep the ties as low as possible for more bracing -- although you may want to have a local professional review it to make sure you are strong enough.  Do you know what your snow loading is?

[Bobby.B]

Welcome Sharbin. I stated building my 20x30 1 1/2 story cottage in Quebec last summer. I used 2x6 for the rafters and 3  2x8 side by side for the ties and I went with an 8 12 pitch 35 degrees roof.  I went threw this winter with only 2 ties I will be adding one more closer to the loft .
wow what an awesome winter almost a record snowfall 




Edit: repaired image tag - MD

[sharbin]

Thank you guys for the welcome.

For the snow load, I have no idea  . I tried looking everywhere on the web but I could not find the info. Do you know (especially Bobby) where to find such information?

Side note: I am not able to upload my Illustration, evethough it is 80k 

[glenn kangiser]

The county - government officials can tell you snow load info - maybe a local architect or engineer could.

Start a free Photobucket account- load the illustration there then copy the bottom img tag from Photobucket and paste it here in your reply.  It will then appear here.

https://s35.photobucket.com

[sharbin]

Thanks Glenn.

Here is my illustration

[glenn kangiser]

I think John said 7 feet was a minimum for occupied space.  Different heights for other uses - loft - storage etc.  I don't know the other numbers.

The lower it is the stronger it is though.

[sharbin]

My concern is about security rather legal habitable space . This is why I would need to know what is the least acceptable placement of the ties so that to have maximum clearance and appropriate strength.

Thanks.

[glenn kangiser]

I would say you would have to ask a local professional - architect or engineer familiar with snow loading.  They will want money to do the calc. 

That's the problem - it is beyond the scope of this forum. You  are trying to resist the outward push as the ridge tries to fall to the floor.  An alternative is to put a beam up there.  Again it would have to be sized by a pro based on your local conditions.

[MaineRhino]

Hi sharbin,

Our camp is just like that. We added a center post, eliminating the need for collar ties, although we will still use very short ones. We have a 8/12 pitch, and there seems to be plenty of head room. By the looks of your plans, you are using 10' walls, correct?



We also had a massive snow load this past winter. The upper post was not in place all winter, but it did not sag!

[sharbin]

Yeah Glenn... I will drop the idea and do it as per plan... this is if I do not find anyone who did it that way

Yes MaineRhino, I have a 10' walls and as per plans, the top of the loft floor is 1' 3/4'' below the top plate and the roof pitch is 12/12. Why did you choose the 8/12 pitch? Wouldn't the 12/12 give you more head room? Also isn't the higher the pitch the lower the snow load effect is Are your rafters lying on the top plate?

[MaineRhino]

An 8/12 pitch was easier to work on. A 10/12 would have been better for headroom, but it feels very roomy up there with the 8/12 !  Also, I like the look of what we chose to do.

And yes, the rafters are attached to the top plate.

We had record snowfall this past winter, and we had no collar ties in place, and no upper post to support the roof. We had no sagging or spread from the snow load.  No worries now though!

[Woodswalker]

Not sure if my information will be of help, but may provide some insite.  I installed 2 x 8 rafters with a 2 x 10 ridge board in my 16' x 20', single room cabin.  It has a 6/12 pitch, and is vaulted below, with 4 exposed 2 x 10 collar ties, at every-other rafter.  The walls are 8' and the peak is 12', so I put them half way at about 10'.  The inspector had no concerns when he was there, and did mention that snow loads in that area have been measured as high as 80lbs/sq.ft.  My place is in central WA, about 15 miles from Canada, at 3,000 ft elevation.  The cabin has now gone through two winters, including this past one, when there was about 3' of snow on the roof for an extended period.  Roof has been solid, and no bulging of the sidewalls.  Exposed collar ties are a bear to sheetrock around, but well worth the effort, in my opinion.  Just finished hanging the ceiling rock this past week, and will be posting new pics in my thread soon.  As a local sage from up the hill told me when he saw the roof framing:  "That place will be standing longer than you care to use it."

[sharbin]

Thanks guys for your input... Am I the only one who is doing it this way

[glenn kangiser]

There are lot of people doing things one way that no one else has done.

You just need to satisfy yourself and see to it that it is strong enough for your conditions - which can vary greatly from one area to another.

[sharbin]

Hello All,

So I decided to put the decision of how to build the roof after putting up the walls.
I haven't shown the progress of building the cottage before, so now here are some pics from digging to framing flooring that was done last summer/fall. I will be building the walls in the coming weekend.


My father giving directions as I do the digging with the backhoe


digging is done.


Framing the footings



pouring cement is done




footing framing is done and cinder blocks for the foundation is underway


building foundation is complete. My parents finishing off the removal of trees roots


mudsill plate is up



framing flooring is complete


French drain


this is how much snow we got last winter (what you see at the base is the top of the flooring)

And this is how far we got!

[Sassy]

Great job!  I see we have another dancing person    You certainly get a lot of snow!  I lived near Bellingham for 12 yrs - would get some snow or ice but it would be gone in a day or 2 - sometimes some pretty good drifts but it never stayed.  Wiser Lake, down the street from us would freeze for quite a ways from the shore - you could walk on it.

Thanks for sharing your progress!  Looks like a pretty area - lots of trees!  That must have been a nightmare getting all those roots out...

[glenn kangiser]

Thanks for the update.  That made it all look fast.

[sharbin]

Hello,

New pictures for framing the walls. I framed 2 of them(almost) but then realized that I cannot do anymore (shortage of space) on the floor before putting up the walls. So I cut all the needed lumber for framing all the windows and doors (10 of them) and piled the parts of each one as a package.
I am doing the walls by 10' sections with sheathing on before errecting them.
Next weekend I will rent a Wall Jack (I am working by myslelf and with the help of my wife sometimes) and start erecting the walls one by one. Hopefully all the walls will be up by the end of the weekend.... wish me luck

[glenn kangiser]

Looks good.

[sharbin]

We started erecting the walls last weekend 10' sections at a time using a wall jack . Well, the jack was about 6" short and did not realize that but after the wall was 3/4 of the way up! To cut a long story short, I only managed to erect three 10' sections. The coming weekend (long one) I will defenitly erect the rest 

[glenn kangiser]

Looks like it's coming along well.

[MountainDon]

Little surprises like that with the jacks being too short slow ya' down a bit. I hate it when that happens. 



Are you going to have to install blocking at the horizontal panel edges or is that not a requirement in your rea? Simply curious.

[ScottA]

You're off to a great start. Looks good! 

[rdzone]

Bummer on the jacks! If I remember right I had to go pick up some knot free 16 footers to raise my 10 foot walls.  We raised a 10' sheathed, 34' long wall with two jacks and several ladders, definitely a scary proposition.