HVAC Concept Discussion

[glenn kangiser]

Thanks, Peter.  I think I now have myself successfully under control.

[Okie_Bob]

You had me worried there Glenn, I go away for a week and come back to pics I couldn't believe I was seeing! Glad to know you have things back under control!! (BTW caught a bunch of rainbow's up in New Mexico last week, 10,000' up in the cold mountains!)

I HATE window A/C units and find them extremely expensive to operate. Seem very inefficient, noisy and impossible to control mixing of air. Mine was built into the wall of the garage apt I built to live in while building the house over the past 5 years. HATE IT.

I totally agree with Don about solar PV and net metering as the solution long term. Glenn walked me through his off-grid system and it just seems too expensive with the battery bank plus the maintenance required. Much cheaper to eliminate the batteries  and use the grid for those times you can't generate your own power.
Largest cost to do this are the PV panels. BUT, there are several companies that claim to have new technologies about to be introduced that will drastically lower the PV cost. IF that happens, everyone should get on the bandwagon and at least put up PV for hot water, I would think? Check out www.heliovolt.net and look at Ramala University in Israel for two of the newer players.
John's point is especially important. You need to decide very early on about all the environmental factors regarding location of your proposed building site. Once built, it's usually too late. Sometimes there is nothing you can do about it but, exploring it in advance can make a huge difference.
I went with open cell foam envelop, an 18 SEER A/C electric heat pump, variable speed, two stage compressor and electric operated duct for seasonal zoning. Expensive to install but, hope it pays for itself soon. Also suggest set back thermostats.
Okie Bob

[glenn kangiser]

Sorry, BoB.  I promise I'll never do it again.

Paint - sheetrock -- plastic-- they're for other people - not troglodytes.

[peternap]

Bob, Ascent Solar has a true flex panel in limited production now. It should be available to the general public in 2010 and the projected cost should be a dollar a watt.

[Okie_Bob]

Peter, if they can produce a high quality panel at $1 per watt, we can all go solar. Current prices I have seen are $5/W and if you figure even 2KW you are looking at $2,000 vs $10,000 per application. Why wouldn't someone want to go solar at those prices?
Okie Bob

[glenn kangiser]

If it gets into that good of production and comes down to that price, demand will be so great, supply will likely raise the price to near the $5.00 in 2 years anyway - that and the declining dollar. 

In 2010 a panel that would be $1.00 will likely cost $2.00 due to the decline, but I see demand for the low cost panel driving the price to near the existing price anyway. 

This is a global market now and I don't see anyway one company could supply the demand of the world for low cost solar panels.

Just my opinion.  Please tell me I'm wrong.  I want some.

[MountainDon]

(BTW caught a bunch of rainbow's up in New Mexico last week, 10,000' up in the cold mountains!)

Where'd you go Bob??

It snowed up at 8800 ft this AM at our place.

[MountainDon]

Just my opinion.  Please tell me I'm wrong.  I want some.

You're wrong. There.     Feel better?   

If one company can do it, so can others. That's the way I see it. The price of 'regular' PV panels has done nothing but drop over the past 5 years that I've followed; there have been momentary peaks, but the prices have fallen overall. [Sorta like the prices of the Model T over its years of production.] And that is with increasing world wide demand.

[glenn kangiser]

Declining dollar should keep the price up though.

At that price the waiting list will be so long we won't be able to get them.  What's the cheapest you've seen lately - we may want some.

[Okie_Bob]

Sorry Don, just now saw your question. We went up next to the Philmont Boy Scout Camp...it's called the Express UU Rance, 160,000 acres and 10,000 head of cattle. Two weeks ago today it snowed pretty good as I was catching some rainbows and we had pretty heave ice on the vehicles the next morning before we left. One of the most beautiful places on earth. And so far our in the boondocks there was no cell phone service, no tv, not even radio where we were..nothing and not a sound that wasn't natural. God what a place!!

Glenn, I hope you are wrong on this one. If enough mfgr's start making the lower cost panels, maybe the prices will stay low? I'm probably just being the optimist here. But, at $1/watt, I'm going totally solar just as quick as I can get the material.
Okie Bob

[glenn kangiser]

I'd really like to see it, but I can't see them leaving that much money on the table for one thing.

The drop to low pricing will have to happen over a long time as in computer technology.  There will likely be patents the others will have to work around.  I don't see anybody giving away the technology unless it' an individual.

If China happens to get the technology and ignore the patents that could change things.  Likely an American company will take the work over there to be done anyway unless it is a totally automated process where they do not need employees so that could cut the time it will take to get the cost down.

You have to remember that this will start to put some competition to the oil companies at that price also.  They won't want that to happen unless they have a major piece of the pie.  That will either raise the price or stop the project.

...but just guessing from the way I see things.