Reality price check for our cabin

grover · March 30, 2013, 07:48:15 AM

Wife and I got a little reality check last night. We met with a builder and for the plans we gave him which was a 600 sq ft footprint, a 12 x12 open loft , and a 8 x 23 covered porch it is going to cost approx $22,000. This is only the shell. He will do a full footer and block foundation, OSB floors and outside walls (no siding), inside wall framing, windows, exterior doors, and a pole barn metal 12/12 pitch roof. I have never had a house built before but I thought that was a little high. The plan was to get him to get us under roof and in the dry. From there we could stay in it on weekends and my son and I would finish it. We are talking siding, wiring, plumbing, insulation, drywall (or whatever kind of walls), cabinets, heating/AC, etc.

What do you think about that price and how much $ will it take to finish it? I know it varies a lot on location but we are in the midwest where costs are very reasonable.

Thanks

rick91351 · March 30, 2013, 08:53:23 AM

I would ask for other bids if you are uneasy with that bid. I might ask for other bids even if I loved that one. Building materials like OSB has made a huge jump. Roofing is not cheap. As far as the bid is concerned - he has his bill of materials that has to come out of that. Plus his fuel, insurance and all other things are going on like he has to put food on the table, let his kids go to the show and take a vacation. Myself I would expect that to be in line..... I guess. But most of the stuff I see is like 50 miles from nowhere. What you are tossing out there on the table would most likely run $24,000 to $26,000 here but I would have the siding figured in to it as well unless you are a experienced siding guy.

Remember if these cabins and homes were cheap everyone would have one or two of them. Your interior cost is up to you and how you want it to look. Get a pad and pencil and start pricing and figuring as you tour some building supply places.

March 30, 2013, 09:48:49 AM

My wifes aunt had their cabin re-built on crooked lake in Wisconsin the builder charged 15K in travel expenses alone. I would say if you break that estimate down it sounds reasonable. Wood is going up, another friend of mine builds condos and the estimate has gone up 1 million dollars in the last 6 months due to the cost of lumber. But I think the more important thing is the intergrity and your ability to work with the builder, everything costs more than you think it will.

Alan Gage · March 30, 2013, 10:49:30 AM

I thought the prices to have someone build a house were ridiculous until I built my own by myself. I look at the money I had in materials and the time it took and I realize a lot of the sq. ft. prices I see aren't that bad. I also thought it was ridiculous when I heard people on this forum say they were building their own places for about $50/ sq ft. I'd already priced framing materials and they were way below that. Figured I could do it for $35/ sq. ft. without too much trouble. In the end I was over $50/sq. ft.

Alan

rick91351 · March 30, 2013, 11:30:15 AM

Allan I so agree with your posting. I would say however you could do it for $35 sq ft DIY if you were one of those guys that just has the luck. Someone that knows where to look and has time to do it. But with the building slump and real good deals are just not out there now. I don't see much out there one the the high value stuff, the stuff where you could really save. Most of that has dried up. The lumber yard that ordered the house full of Knotty Alder doors in 2'6" some one miss reads it as 2'8" so they send the 2'8". The lumber yard reorders 2'6" but has to eat the 2'8" doors. Heck I take the write down and can frame for 2'8"s and figure out how to make the L R swings work right. I have a friend in the cabinet trades and ordered for a large lumber yard as well. You would be surprised how many custom kitchens got measured wrong, made wrong or or the lady of the house had a melt down and went from birch to hickory, to oak. I could not even buy the hardware and sheet goods for what I could buy those for. Like a good honest half off on stuff like that. But some people just happen to be in the right place at the right time. Windows was also a great place to save. You could pick up those weird measured windows for next to nothing. Takes some creative 'hippy' framing to get them work but

All that to say I wish I would have taken advantage of all that but........ when they were there......

March 30, 2013, 07:45:56 PM

I may be able to accept the $22,000 if I knew what the rest of it will be. The $50 per sq ft you mention would end up costing about $40,000 total meaning I will have to finish it for about $18,000. Is that possible?

Squirl · March 30, 2013, 08:27:24 PM

Sounds about right, give or take a thousand or two. If I factored in my time, travel time, insurance into what I have for a 600 sq. ft. I would be about that. You are also getting a porch. The loft indicates to me that you will probably do cathedral ceilings and that adds costs too.

I'd get a few more quotes, but that sounds like a reasonable estimate.

Be wary of low ball quotes. They could be fraudsters. Most importantly check up on reputations. If you have an online court system, check to see it the person has ever been sued or a public records check for any liens, bankruptcies, etc.. A $15 background check is cheaper than $22,000 or a lawyer. Structure the deal to pay in stages if you can. I worked a case once where a contractor took the money up front, then committed suicide. There was no way for the person to get it back.

You will pay for good work and a contractor with a good reputation. It is worth it IMHO. Just don't get taken.

rick91351 · March 30, 2013, 09:11:06 PM

Squirl is so correct..... However just because they are high dollar does not mean they are high quality. Oh the story behind that one and a moneyed back woods neighbor guy who hired a high end builder out of Sun Valley - Ketchum area. I never seen so many corners cut and so many building inspections fail and he was a 'high end builder' and the money and the materials he wasted.

I read where you and your son are planing on finishing it. If you take your son out of the equation could you finish it yourself? So often friends and relatives in the long run run out. I am not saying that will occur what I am saying right now looks like that would be doable how about down the road?

Alan Gage · March 31, 2013, 09:55:38 PM

Quote from: grover on March 30, 2013, 07:45:56 PM
I may be able to accept the $22,000 if I knew what the rest of it will be. The $50 per sq ft you mention would end up costing about $40,000 total meaning I will have to finish it for about $18,000. Is that possible?

I don't know if it's possible in your case or not but the $50/sq. ft. cost I gave was for people who had done all the work themselves, or at least the vast majority of it. I only hired out someone to dig footings, do the slab pour (I formed it), lay 2 courses of block, and trench in a 20' run of electric from the pole. Those cost me about $5000. Everything else was materials only and no labor.

Alan

March 31, 2013, 10:08:35 PM

Where are you in the midwest? How deep do you have to go for footings? What's your soil like? Do you need footing drains? Do you need to bring in any fill? Basement? Crawlspace? Slab?

I don't know how accurate my quesstimates are but just looking at what he quoted I see an at least $6000 foundation, $2000 in windows, $2000 in roofing materials, and $1000 in exterior doors. You're up to $11,000 and that doesn't include any framing material, all the other incidentals or labor (except for the foundation).

Some of those could be high, I don't know how you're planning to use this place. A once in a while getaway cabin that's not intended to last a long time or a more permanent residence.

Alan

flyingvan · April 01, 2013, 12:08:32 AM

$22,000 wouldn't even get you a kitchen remodel around here. You oughtta jump on that like a rat on a cheeto

Remington760-308 · April 01, 2013, 01:47:10 PM

What I would do is ask how much material is going to cost. Rule of thumb around here is double material cost is what it is going to cost ya. http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=12608.msg164113#msg164113
or
20x24 log cabin with loft - built from white pines from our property
this what I am building.
I am doing it all myself except driveway/post and piers installation.(gonna help though)
I have a budget of $10,000
I think I will be able to even get lower than that. ($8k)
But i am a contractor and have done a lot of building so this is a piece of cake except that I have never done a skip peeled log cabin.

grover · April 01, 2013, 06:12:05 PM

I'm in Southern Indiana. I think the frost line is about 24" down.
Ok, the rough breakdown off the top of my head is $10,200 for lumber, $1,500 for roof metal, $3,100 for window and doors, $3,700 framing labor, $3,000 for footers and block. The $3000 for footers and block is materials and labor.
This is sheathed with 7/16 OSB but does not include siding.

From that point I plan on finishing it myself.
I guess I need to start a list and see what It's going to take $$$ to finish.
Siding
Electrical & lighting
Plumbing
Insulation
Drywall
Kitchen cabinets
Paint
Flooring
Trim
Woodburner
All the other things I have missed

Thanks

Rob_O · April 01, 2013, 10:37:45 PM

Quote from: grover on March 30, 2013, 07:45:56 PM
I may be able to accept the $22,000 if I knew what the rest of it will be. The $50 per sq ft you mention would end up costing about $40,000 total meaning I will have to finish it for about $18,000. Is that possible?

Hard to say without seeing a floorplan. More cabinets, more counters, more closets, more walls, more money. My guess-ometer says you will spend at least another $22k to finish the place out, less if you can find the deals rick mentioned.

April 02, 2013, 11:44:40 AM

I think I'd be pretty happy with $22k more. I want to do it inexpensively but I don't want to cheap out on everything.

itpdk9 · April 02, 2013, 12:47:16 PM

I am at the start of my build myself, I am taking delivery of my materials on this saturday. I have 20,000 in materials for a 20x40 excluding finished siding and metal roof, which I have a price of 1500 for. So I would say that as long as the contractor is reputable I think that is an excellent deal. I deal with a lot of contractor fraud at work, so I would make sure that he is of good quality and character. Check his references and the BBB website, also your local court system for civil action against. Good luck and can't wait to see your progress.

Scott

Rob_O · April 02, 2013, 06:36:46 PM

Quote from: grover on April 02, 2013, 11:44:40 AM
I think I'd be pretty happy with $22k more. I want to do it inexpensively but I don't want to cheap out on everything.

Start looking for the deals now. I bought a pickup truck full of new wood frame windows for under $100 each at Lowe's, the re-store always has several kitchens worth of cabinets for a few hundred bucks a set and you never know what you will find at builders surplus.

grover · April 02, 2013, 08:19:24 PM

I was visualizing the scissor trusses and the room trusses and realized that there is a problem. My scissor trusses which are 7/12 on the interior are not going to look too good with my room trusses which have a interior height of 8 ft. Where they come together will look like crap. It might not be too bad if it were a room walled off but not a loft.
I talked to another truss builder who recommended a scissor truss with 12/12 outside pitch and a 9/12 inside pitch. I think I may have to regroup, start over, and start a new thread.

Alan Gage · April 03, 2013, 03:51:10 PM

Quote from: Rob_O on April 02, 2013, 06:36:46 PM
Start looking for the deals now. I bought a pickup truck full of new wood frame windows for under $100 each at Lowe's, the re-store always has several kitchens worth of cabinets for a few hundred bucks a set and you never know what you will find at builders surplus.

To each their own. I looked for good deals as soon as I started seriously planning my house. Picked up some good stuff for good prices only to find out that by the time I was ready to use them something had changed in the plans and they weren't going to work any more. By the time I got rid of what I didn't want I took a loss. I'm better off not trying to buy ahead.

Alan

MountainDon · April 03, 2013, 05:45:48 PM

I'm pretty much with Alan on the pre buying. I did buy a few things before being ready, the inverter-charger was the biggest single item. But by that time I had set the final electrical system in stone after 2 years of planning. It was several hundred dollars off and that just doesn't happen often with top rated equipment. I also like bargains, but don't like to bend or change what I what to suit the available bargains. Example; we wanted windows of a certain size and they had to be sliders. I'd still be looking for windows if I wanted an off the shelf someplace bargain.

So, like Alan said, to each their own.