How hard is it to get a building permit in WA or OR?

[maggiethecat]

So my husband and I decided on Washington state or Oregon. This rules out AK and HI because it would cost too much to move there. Also, it would cost a lot more money to stay somewhere while we built the grandfather's cottage. And it would cost more to ship our artwork to our customers...and very possibly no telephone service in isolated areas of AK..

So now it's either Oregon (probably Klamath Falls area since we see a LOT of land for sale there for cheap, and most importantly, owner financed) or Washington state. If we purchase these plans from countryplans will we have a hard time getting a building permit? We don't know much about the bureaucracy. We actually think that paying the government for a permit to build in our land is unconstitutional but that's something else. 

Anyway, any help would be appreciated. 

--maggie

[glenn kangiser]

We actually think that paying the government for a permit to build in our land is unconstitutional but that's something else. 

Another person with their eyes opened.  That's great, Maggie.  I agree 100%.  This guy is pretty good on a lot of that stuff.

http://www.landrights.com/
LANDRIGHTS.COM

I think it can vary a lot in different areas of the states.

Hobbiest - our member was from K-falls area for a while.  You could message or email him.

[akemt]

If you're looking for more constitutional rights, I'd strongly suggest not going to Oregon...that State is almost as socialist as it comes.  Klamath is atleast away from Portland, etc.  Parts of Washington are the same and it isn't that far behind overall.  Of course, I'm coming from an AK perspective with more constitutional rights than most states, so perhaps I'm a bit spoiled. 

[StinkerBell]

I am currently on stand by with Stevens County WA.
Funny thing is, they have my plans waiting in a que for their inspectors to approve/disapprove yet they had no problem cashing my check last week.....

I did learn something interesting. I was very insistent that this is a owner building permit. I was hoping to get a price reduction on the permit fee (some counties have this option but they wont tell you, you have to tell them). Steven county has such a bylaw. As a owner you can build without permits and the fees as an owner. However they will not inspect and your building must be at least 100 feet from any property line. Sadly my lot did not met that 100 foot rule.

[CREATIVE1]

I didn't buy property in Thurston County WA (Olympia) because of some horror stories, decided to go to Mason County---and it hasn't been any better.  Look at the "Victoria Cottage at Lake Cushman" posts in the owner-builder section to read about trials and tribulations to date.

If I did this again, I might've looked at buying land with a fixer-upper to remodel, but I'm sure that also could backfire.

There are blogs about different communities which can be a source of good information.  In general, I would say tolook at the county's website to get some idea of what is required.  Also, try to stay under 1,000 feet above sea level to avoid snow load issues.  Stormwater codes usually come into effect when you are covering more than 2,000 square feet of ground with buildings, driveways, and porches, but in some Washington areas (Belfair, for example) the rules apply for all size structures and can add as much as $30,000 extra in building costs.  Also, watch out for requirements for sprinkler systems.  We got caught on this because the grade going up our mountain is more than 16%.  A pipefitter has to design the system.

I looked for 2 to 3 years all over Washington before I found my land, but my criteria was probably different from yours. I also didn't go for Oregon because of higher property taxes, state income tax, and other cost considerations.  So what factors are guiding your choice?

[maggiethecat]

This whole "building permit" is utter crap and would have sent the forefathers into a frenzy. I just looked at the requirements for Pierce County and they are ridiculous. Same for King county. Still not sure about Pacific county.  We were looking into Alaska but the cost of moving there would have seriously hurt our savings. How much does it cost to ferry a car to AK? How long is the wait?

It's annoying having to bow down to the system. We have low credit scores due to student loans and so we can't easily find a place to rent. But we can buy land thru owner-financed land sites like sigma properties, or billyland. But it's useless if the leeches, I mean, governments are going to try and drain us of all our savings with these inspections and permits. They want to keep the american people down. That's another reason we want to move. Someday the excremental matter is going to strike the rotating blades. It won't be too long. We have to protect our loved ones and our rights...don't get me started.

I got an email today from Duane Mathes realty in Wasilla, AK...nice properties for sale there.  If only moving to AK weren't so much more expensive..

We like Oregon not having sales tax (another unconstitutional staple of our society...). But my husband lived in WA before so we're partial to that. I'm fine with either.  We're both really sick of Mexifornia. LA is probably going to be the capital of the North American Union when the borders go down. This is going to be a war zone and sooner we get out of here the better.

Sorry for the rant...been very busy all day and got lots on my mind...

--maggie

[Willy]

Okanogan County, WA. is one of the easiest places to get building permits in. It took just about 1 hour and a simple 3 page 11x18 set of plans and around $500.00 total. I had one inspection and got my finel all at the same time. King County is a joke that is why I moved from thee 13 years ago! Mark

[maggiethecat]

Willy, that sounds PERFECT! Any source for cheap land there? Thanks!

--maggie

[John Raabe]

There are great variations in most states based on the character of the jurisdiction:

If...
• This is a hip place is to live,
• The area is growing faster than other parts of the state or region,
• Property values have gone up for the last 5-10 years,
• Upscale suburban and 2nd home areas are covering earlier farmland and woods
Then, this will likely be an expensive place to build and it will be tough and expensive to get a permit

[rwanders]

Shipping a car from Seattle to Anchorage Alaska is about $1200----or you can drive from Seattle area to Anchorage in about 4-5 days (about 2500 miles). Not cheap with higher gas prices in Canada----but if it's summer you can easily camp out and avoid restaurants and it would be cheaper than shipping car and buying two plane tickets.

[glenn kangiser]

This whole "building permit" is utter crap and would have sent the forefathers into a frenzy. I just looked at the requirements for Pierce County and they are ridiculous. Same for King county. Still not sure about Pacific county.  We were looking into Alaska but the cost of moving there would have seriously hurt our savings. How much does it cost to ferry a car to AK? How long is the wait?

It's annoying having to bow down to the system. We have low credit scores due to student loans and so we can't easily find a place to rent. But we can buy land thru owner-financed land sites like sigma properties, or billyland. But it's useless if the leeches, I mean, governments are going to try and drain us of all our savings with these inspections and permits. They want to keep the american people down. That's another reason we want to move. Someday the excremental matter is going to strike the rotating blades. It won't be too long. We have to protect our loved ones and our rights...don't get me started.

I got an email today from Duane Mathes realty in Wasilla, AK...nice properties for sale there.  If only moving to AK weren't so much more expensive..

We like Oregon not having sales tax (another unconstitutional staple of our society...). But my husband lived in WA before so we're partial to that. I'm fine with either.  We're both really sick of Mexifornia. LA is probably going to be the capital of the North American Union when the borders go down. This is going to be a war zone and sooner we get out of here the better.

Sorry for the rant...been very busy all day and got lots on my mind...

--maggie

maggie -- the way you talk. 

I love it.  You really understand the way things are.   

I was born and lived in Oregon, and pretty well consider it a Police state.  One of my neighbors up there was a State trooper, and said he had to get out because of the crap they were always pulling.  He was a good guy and his conscience made him leave.

I really hope everything works out great for you and you keep us up to date on your progress.

[Willy]

Willy, that sounds PERFECT! Any source for cheap land there? Thanks!

--maggie

Not sure about cheap anymore but you can look around on this site under the different towns. Click on Okanogan when you bring up this site and then land or residential after that try the different towns for what might interest you. Oroville is a area land is still cheap in but going up in price soon! Mark
http://www.nwrealestate.com/nwrpub/index.cfm

[rwanders]

It is about $1200 to ship a vehicle from Seattle to Anchorage Alaska. Or you can drive from Seattle in about 4-5 days (2500 miles). If done during warmer months you can easily camp along the way and avoid restaurants, etc.----unless you are in urban areas---no codes or inspection fees in most of Alaska---also very low or no taxes---income or sales tax.

[StinkerBell]

Shipping a car from Seattle to Anchorage Alaska is about $1200----or you can drive from Seattle area to Anchorage in about 4-5 days (about 2500 miles). Not cheap with higher gas prices in Canada----but if it's summer you can easily camp out and avoid restaurants and it would be cheaper than shipping car and buying two plane tickets.

I drove to Alaska and did that camping thing, until Prince George. I think it was 1995, and a camper got eaten. NO the camper did not accidentally stumble upon the bear or stumble upon a bear kill. Nope the bear stalked the camper and ate him. From that point no more camping.

[maggiethecat]

Hi guys,

the talk about Alaska is extremely enticing  , but like I said, it would eat up the savings too quick. The problem is renting a place while we build the house. We have  crap credit and our income isn't exactly provable. Nor would we want the government knowing exactly how much we make. The rent in Alaska seems high and people seem over concerned with renter's credit. We have good references, just not the credit score...

We vacate the apartment here in the end of the month. So we got till then to save more money. By the way if anybody here likes art... we're selling all our current paintings on eBay. I don't know if I'm allowed to post a link, so PM if you are interested. 


--maggie

[glenn kangiser]

I looked your art over as my son is a bit of an artist too, maggie.  I really liked your paintings.  Very interesting and I think they would go great in someone's cabin or house.

Would you mind going ahead and posting a link for information - it's not really advertising - it is a decorative accessory to a house. 

I would like to send it to my son - he's in Glendale I think.

[maggiethecat]

Hi Glenn, I'll post the link to our online store:

http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maggietoh

Thanks for the interest and I hope it doesn't bother anyone. ;-)  Both my paintings and my husband's paintings are for sale there. I had a gallery showing recently in North Hollywood but I have to say it is way better to sell directly to the public. We don't want to let the government dictate what we can and can't do and there will always be a need for art.

If we did build in Alaska it would be around Willow. That depends on whether we can get financing from one of those realtors that don't require credit check.

[CREATIVE1]

I've been looking for property in Washington other than Mason County, and the Okanagon area was very interesting.  Around Republic, there is a poster on Craig's List right now selling 10 acres for $12,500, 3,800 feet above sea level with views. Year round access. Apparently electric is at the bottom of the hill and moving up.  They're selling an adjacent 10 acres with a cabin for $52,000.

Look at www.auctionacres.com.  If you have any cash up front, they are selling foreclosed land too, some in Washington and Oregon.

With medical problems, we had to be close in.  That was one of our issues.  It certainly is aggravating to deal with permitting, but I'm saving my energy for the fight instead of ranting and raving.

The sales tax issue didn't bother me, since I buy lots of stuff online and can also buy used and from individuals.  I can control my expense there, so Washington will be cheaper for me.

[MikeT]

It is good to have choices, and choosing where to live is important.  I choose to live in Portland, Oregon.  Oregon has voter-approved statewide land use planning.   This was implemented in the early 1970s and has withstood many challenges over the years.  The system mandates that municipalities create circles around them, called urban growth boundaries, and building needs to occur within these boundaries.  The idea is to protect farm land and open spaces.  You can still purchase and build on land outside of these boundaries, but the density and minimum lot size is such that it does not permit subdivisions. 

Counties and municipalities manage the permitting processes, depending on the area.  There is currently an effort to standardize the basic rules, but they still vary from county to country.

So these are the basic guidelines approved by the citizens of Oregon and upheld continually for over 30 years.  Citizens have tried to change these rules by petition and referendum, and when taken to a vote, we the citizens of Oregon have continually said, "we like these guidelines."

So if you choose to live in Oregon, understand the guidelines that the citizens have adopted.

[Willy]

Hi Glenn, I'll post the link to our online store:

http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maggietoh

Thanks for the interest and I hope it doesn't bother anyone. ;-)  Both my paintings and my husband's paintings are for sale there. I had a gallery showing recently in North Hollywood but I have to say it is way better to sell directly to the public. We don't want to let the government dictate what we can and can't do and there will always be a need for art.

If we did build in Alaska it would be around Willow. That depends on whether we can get financing from one of those realtors that don't require credit check.

"That depends on whether we can get financing from one of those realtors that don't require credit check."

That part can be a problem. Financing the property. If you can't pass a credit check then you will be stuck with most likely junk land nobody wants and they don't care who they can stick with buying it. Employment is another problem if you need a job to live then some areas will not be able to give you much luck in that department. There is TONS of cheap land in the USA but there isn't TONs of cheap land near places you can get a job and with the price of fuel makes it real hard to live and drive far for work. If your living in So. California it takes big bucks to live there! I know I used to live in Orange County. You may just want to rent some where for a while till you get the feel of the area to see if you can make a living and realy want to buy. Mark

[maggiethecat]

Hi Willy,

I got this email from a realtor that sells in the Okanogan area. He said:

I do have a 20 acre piece.  It does have some easement issues with it, so the buyer would have that issue to deal with.   The neighboring rancher/farmer will not grant access.    However, there are way to get access, courts, etc.

Sounds kinda harsh...

[peternap]

Depends on how good a deal you get. The rancher wants to get it for nothing. He'll be a pain. In all states I know of, you can force right of way. Depending on state law (They're all different) and the previous route of ingress, you may get access for legal costs alone or may have to pay the rancher fair value. If you can get the land dirt cheap which is feasible considering the current market...and access won't be too expensive, it could be a GREAT buy.

You need to do some research!

[CREATIVE1]

After giving it some thought, I decided to take the leap and perhaps post something a little controversial.

I'm an unabashed hippie, writer, humanities degree, teacher, paddler, hiker, yoga practitioner.  My husband has a degree in English/Anthropology, does Tai Chi, sword fighting and other martial arts, writes poetry, followed the Grateful Dead, and  is a true adventurer even at 60. Our son is a craftsman/builder, custom tattoo artist, mines and tumbles stones to make jewelry, plays every instrument and composes his own songs. We live in a very alternative house for Florida, and instead of moving to Sun City Center like many people over fifty, decided to live with bears and elk.  But, to some extent--and despite beliefs that are hardly mainstream-- WE PLAY THE GAME.

I'm a tax accountant, mortgage broker, and financial planner.  Went back to school to get this education.  I help people play the credit game and win.  It is a game.  I find government programs people can access to get free money--it is out there.  A few hoops, but you can maintain an alternative viewpoint and still access those goodies.   You can win by having one foot in each world. 

I could go on and on, but at least I've opened up the discussion.

[glenn kangiser]

Now you're getting to be like me.

I have always called it a game.  We pretend that moving a nail a 1/4 inch will make the building fall over.  We pretend that the inspector is the most important all knowing, god like creature in the world. 

We pretend that safety is the issue that causes us to need building permits because we don't want to face the reality that the real reason at least in small owner built homes is that the permits are to get us on the tax roles, to take away our freedom by contracting with the agency having jurisdiction and signing away our rights giving them power over us when we sign the permit on the dotted line.

Master craftsmen like PEG used to be in control of the projects and they never fell down.  It is the take care of me attitude and corporate lobbyist  insuring that their products are required by code that have got us into this mess. 

Yes - a game of let's pretend and the other side doesn't play nice.

[Sassy]

Creative, so you're the one to go to!     

Glenn's oldest son sounds a lot like your son, Creative.  He does custom building & metal work - has built some beautiful furniture, worked with copper & other types of metal - he even did a whole roof in copper down in the Los Angeles area,  His painting & artwork is really good & does some wild art too    He lived in the valley all his life, out in the country so is enjoying all the possibilities of Los Angeles, as a change.  I for one, could not stand to live there - I don't even like Fresno, duh, & that isn't near as big as LA. 

You guys are an eclectic family.  I used to do a lot of poetry, writing...  used to write for local newspapers in the valley when I was just 20...  need to get back into some of that. 

Maggie,  I also like your art - I love the colors - I like plain walls in a house - our one in the valley has off-white walls, because I love to put splashes of color on them with art etc & on my shelves, also like a lot of plants in the house. Your paintings would look good on our wood walls, too - I'll have to look over the paintings again.  Only problem, I already have so many in the valley at our other house. 

Now back to permits...