Ceramic floor tile over vinyl flooring

[n74tg]

Girlfriend wants to tile the kitchen and laundry room.  She bought a tile book written by Lowe's.  They say if the vinyl flooring is non-resilient and is stuck down well you can tile right over it.   We're gonna strip it good to get all the wax off (she's been waxing it for years).

Any thoughts/recommendations/advice/rants?

thanks

[MountainDon]

What's under the vinyl? wood of some kind? concrete slab?

I'm not an expert, but I don't like the idea of installing ceramic over vinyl, It's a lot of work laying and grouting and I'd hate for something to show up later...

Vinyl on concrete comes up pretty nice, over wood a bit more messy/difficult to remove. I've done both. If you were to apply ceramic over the vinyl I'd have a real good close & hard look at all the edges, area by the sink toe kick etc. before making my final decision.

One more thing. If this is a wood joist floor and you can see what size joists, spans etc, you might want to check the link on this page to see how it stacks up for deflection limits recommended for ceramic tile.

[glenn kangiser]

I'd go with it.

If you are going to be putting ceramic over a wood (t&g etc) floor, it is necessary to put a vinyl slipsheet over the wood to keep the annual expansion and contraction of the wood from tearing the tile loose.  I put a vinyl sheet over 1x3 t&g at our other place then ceramic tile directly on the vinyl.  I was instructed by a former tile installer at a store.

It worked fine and has been in for about 10 years.  Where there were a bit unstable areas as where a wall was removed there was a small problem with a bit of the grout loosening but for the most part it was trouble free.

[MountainDon]

I guess there's a number of ways to skin a cat. We pulled the vinyl up and screwed 1/2 cdx plywood over, then tiled on that. It worked too. Glenn, is the resident expert 'round here tho'    

[glenn kangiser]

I don't think the plywood will have the issues that the softwood t&g would have.  The vinyl slipsheet was a way to keep from having to put plywood or particle board down.  It's just something that worked for me.

Lots of ways to do things though.

[PEG688]

 Tile should be layed over a cement brd backer, so any flex is taken out. Never heard of  Glenn's way by any tile man up here.

If I where laying tile I'd want wonder brd under it , wonder brd thinsetted to the sheathing / subfloor.  

G/L PEG

[n74tg]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

The vinyl is on a concrete slab.  I've inspected all the edges and they look pretty good.  I'll have to trim the vinyl back about 1/2" at  the back door as it has come loose there, but nowhere else.  

This vinyl is an oak parkay pattern, and it appears to have been installed square with the walls; so my gridlines are already on the floor.

Will let you know how it turns out.

 

[MarkAndDebbie]

I did tile on vinyl on a slab. I went well and quickly. I did have one dip/gouge. My office chair has cracked that tile. I should have tried to level that more. They have some stuff to pour on concrete that is really thin (liquidy) to level. I don't know if that would work. Good luck.

[n74tg]

Mountain Dan or Glenn

How do you rename a reference to another post?  Dan renamed it to "this" above (for the deflectometer info).

[MarkAndDebbie]

Mountain Dan or Glenn

How do you rename a reference to another post?  Dan renamed it to "this" above (for the deflectometer info).

like this
[ url=http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1179975737/7#7]this[/url]
without that space between "[" and "url"

[MountainDon]

Also see HELP page link at top of every page. scroll about 1/3 way down.

And it's "MountainDon"  not Dan, although I've been called lots worse than Dan....  

[glenn kangiser]

Sorry I'm slow today - computer update problem.  

[n74tg]

Sorry Don, I guess I need to get better glasses.

Here is first days work on the tile job.  Only got 77 tiles layed, but hey, it's my first tile laying ever.  In some of the pics you can see the oak parkay vinyl, which I used as my layout lines.  After lunch, the girlfriend joined me and while she back buttered tiles I mortared the floor and placed the tiles.  I'm not quite sure whether we actually needed the spacers, but she wanted them used (in her house).

I chose the cheaper Mapei Keraflor mortar, not the much more expensive polymer modified mortar (roughly four times the price).  Salesman said the latex additive in the Ultraflex made for better expansion and shrink capabilities, but I thought a concrete floor probably doesn't expand and shrink much.  If I'm wrong, someone kindly tell me.

I think I'll get all the whole tiles layed first and mortar dried, then come in and place the cut pieces around the outside.  Is there any reason I should grout the whole tiles before doing the outside tiles?

[Sassy]

Looks nice so far - we haven't had any problems with our tile floor... re the grout - we did all the whole pieces, haven't finished the perimeter next to the cabinets   - we had a lousy tile cutter that ended up breaking a lot of the tiles so we got tired of doing it & never got back to finishing...   :-/

[glenn kangiser]

You can put the little spacers flat in the corner, Tony, then the corners will always line up exactly.  They make a little hook tool to pull them out after the tile is set - before you grout but a small screwdriver or wire hook would do it.  A grout bag makes it easy to put the grout in the groove.  On a job I was on they put the grout in the groove with the bag -- let it set up for a while then after firm scraped it off the top leaving it near finished.  A sponge with Brillo type pad on the back will help finish the rest.

... and yes -- I didn't finish the rest around some of  the walls or under the fridge or a couple inches by the toe kick of the counters, but I'm only at that house a few times a year so I try to lose all recollection or the things I haven't finished there.  I have a complete new lifetime list of things I haven't finished here.  No danger of me dying --- that's my reason to live. :-?

It's near 10 years now.  Guinness Book of Records should be calling soon.

[PEG688]

... and yes -- I didn't finish the rest around some of  the walls or under the fridge or a couple inches by the toe kick of the counters, but I'm only at that house a few times a year so I try to lose all recollection or the things I haven't finished there.  I have a complete new lifetime list of things I haven't finished here.  No danger of me dying --- that's my reason to live. :-?

It's near 10 years now.  Guinness Book of Records should be calling soon.

One of THOSE guys eh  Poor poor Sassy :'(

[MountainDon]

Is there any reason I should grout the whole tiles before doing the outside tiles?

Only if you're like Glenn (and me to some degree I'll admit; although I'm not allowed to forget the things that bother my DW.) and not planning on finishing up the edges for a decade or two.  

As for cutting tile I bought a relatively inexpensive water cooled tile saw a number of years ago. It's done the jobs I've asked it to do, albeit with a slower cutting speed than a pro saw. You could also rent one. I make much nicer cuts than using the score and break type.

And Glenn's right on the money with the spacers; put 'em in the corners so everything lines up nice. I use a modified screwdriver as a removal tool.

Sounds like the grout bag is a good way to place the grout; never heard of that before. Now if someone has any quick and easy way to clean up the hazy residue when it's all done...

[glenn kangiser]

PEG,  :'(

Thanks, Don-- you almost came to my rescue, I think. :-?

The way I see it --- these houses have a limited lifetime.  Soon that house will be in a ghetto of Fresno, then there will be no need to finish the tile because it won't matter anyway.   Nobody cares what a crack house looks like.  I can almost read the writing on the wall --- oh --- that's graffiti. :-/  

OK -- so the big city cancer will probably not get there in my lifetime, but I still don't want to go down there and finish the tile.

By the way --- what I came here to say before I found out I was getting picked on----- The grout bags are a cloth funnel affair - you may need to open the tip a bit.  Home Depot has them in the tile section for about $4.00.  We use them for putting grout around handrails that are set in holes in concrete -- common steel guy stuff.

[PEG688]

The way I see it --- these houses have a limited lifetime.  Soon that house will be in a ghetto of Fresno, then there will be no need to finish the tile because it won't matter anyway.   Nobody cares what a crack house looks like.  I can almost read the writing on the wall --- oh --- that's graffiti. :-/  

OK -- so the big city cancer will probably not get there in my lifetime, but I still don't want to go down there and finish the tile.

Ah the power of negative thinking I see    Why not just take the ole bobcat to er ta night , why wait , it might be , could have , might get termites anyway !  

Look out I think the sky is falling , run , run..... Oh drat where is Charlie Brown Kangiser. Whoo is me poor Yorie/ Glenn.

There ya feel mo betta

[glenn kangiser]

He's with Chicken Little Kangiser.

Sassy needs to use it until she quits working in Hell -- I mean Fresno.  Not ready to bury it yet. :-?

Actually it's not too bad a place if you have to live down there.

[desdawg]

It is really hard to finish all of those old projects when there are so many new ones to start. I salvage some material from somewhere, just enough to get something started but not finished when Bwella-new material shows up for yet another project! It is a vicious cycle. There should be a 12 step group somewhere.  :-/

[glenn kangiser]

I have several future projects stacked up around here.

I keep getting free good stuff. :-/