well/pressure tank issue

[nysono]

I finally got my well/pressure tank /waterlines all connected and all seemed to be working well.......until.......I turned off the generator for the evening after the pressure tank was full and 20 minutes later the pressure tank is empty....Hmmmmm my thoughts are that there is either a leak in the main line to the camp or the check valve on the pump is bad (new pump).  Am I missing anything? I really dont want to dig the line back up (yes there is a splice in it at the 200 ft mark).
Thanks for the thoughts, Steve

[rick91351]

When it is charged and the pump is powered and there is no draw on the water does the pump continually cycle? 

[nysono]

When it is charged and the pump is powered and there is no draw on the water does the pump continually cycle?

yes it will cycle, it takes a while though.  kick off pressure is 58 psi it will slowly drop to about 47psi then there is a sudden drop to 38psi and (kick on pressure) and will continue to drop slowly after that if pump breaker is off.  Pressure tank is 45 gallon so there is a fair amount of water in there to drain ....(leak, Im afraid)

[rick91351]

You my friend are a proud owner of a leak.........

Now where is the leak and what type?   

The pressure tank might be defective.  I assume it is one with a bladder or diaphragm it might have a hole in it.

http://wetheadmedia.com/how-do-i-know-if-my-pressure-tank-is-bad/ 

For it to be leaking that much water that quickly.  I think you would find the spot pretty quick.  WOW we got spring in the back yard now....... 

I assume you used the good old black poly-pipe?  What rating?

I assume with regular poly fittings and clamped?   

Unless you have forgotten to clamp a fitting or a rock punctured your water line I would think the pressure tank is bad.   

[Dave Sparks]

I always forget this important clue when troubleshooting pressure tanks.  Do you hear the bladder expanding when the pump is on and contracting when draining with the pump off.

[glenn kangiser]

Hmmm ... Dave ... Having my morning coffee and feel my bladder expanding... is that also a problem?

Actually that was just a dumb thought I had.. [ouch]

I want to mention that on the pump issue, it might be possible the check valve is leaking on the pump, but usually I use one for every 100 feet or so and one above ground just before the pressure switch on the pump side - the pressure switch must be able to sense tank pressure so must be on the tank side of the above ground check valve.  If you do not have a check valve in this location it can be installed without removing the pump and will eliminate any leak down issues in the well.  Also if you have an air charged system - not a bladder type tank, it has a leakdown valve to purposely leak water back into the well around 10 feet or so down, and make the air charge for the tank in which case the check above ground at the tank is mandatory.

[nysono]

Well, we dug up theline in the area the splice, sure enough there was a leak.  Repaired it with a new galvanized fitting (was plastic) and checked, no leak.....hmmmm that wasnt too bad. Ohhhh but wait, pump is still kicking on with no water draw in the camp? What the heck (not my exact words) so there is still another leak somewhere.   I dont get it, its typical black poly water line rated for 160psi which I ran inside 4inch black corrogated drain line, just to be on the safe side.  Guess that didnt help much.  More digging this week, I will check the connection to the pitless next.

[rick91351]

That heavy of a black poly it sometimes can be a bear to work with.  I think it pays to double your clamps.  And make sure they are good clamps, get the line good and warmed up with a propane or butane torch.  Then cinch the clamps down without stripping them.

We used that heavy weight black poly when we put in the frost frees up at the ranch.  We buried about 2500 ft of that stuff and scattered seven or eight frost frees out.  Every connection and splice was cussed and discussed.  But we made it with out any leaks!

Good luck....      

[PorkChopsMmm]

After my own recent woes with my pressure tank, I would recommend taking out your tire pressure gauge and measuring the PSI of the bladder in the pressure tank while it is *empty*. My small pressure tanks needs 26 to 29 psi. When I checked mine it was 0 PSI! I used my air compressor to refill the bladder and it worked fine.

Also, and I can't explain this, when my bladder had 0 pressure I got a constant draw down on the tank. I don't know where the water/pressure went but the gauge would continually drop until I filled the bladder up. FWIW. Good luck!

[nysono]

What a headache.....as of right now all is working fine.  It turns out I didnt have another leak in the line after all.  When I checked the pitless adapter before looking for the original line leak the rubber O-ring was cut when I reconnected the pitless.  I didnt recheck it until I was ready to redig the whole line up. Luckily I decided to check one more time before digging.... Fingers are crossed hoping this is it....did I mention that I very much dislike plumbing.

[Don_P]

I was at a friends house when things went amiss. As we walked by on the way to the crawlspace we passed his son "come along boy let me teach you another verse of the I hate plumbing song  " On the bright side you are on the supply rather than the waste end.

We have a small leak somewhere in the ~1400' of line to the outbuilding/ hydrants at work. He's a scientist and has mentioned a short half life radioisotope and geiger counter... this could get interesting  .