too many children rant

[MountainDon]

....  She said no!  because pregnancy is already risky for her and she thinks it would be higher risk for multiples, he said YES he wants 9 so they have an even ten. .......

Seems to me your daughter is the one showing some common sense about her life.

[tanya]

Oh yes she has good sense but I still think she could at least consult with her doctor.  By the way I saw a few of the octuplets on TV this morning, they are so very adorable.  And I saw that WITCH of a grandmother too.  What a hag.  If I were her daughter I would disown her. The babies look surprisingly healthy which speaks volumes about how well the mom cared for herself during pregnancy.  I am not at all surprised the wealthy amongst us would like the state to take them and put them up for adoption, they are absolutely adorable.

[StinkerBell]

I am curious why you have deemed the grandmother of the octuplets a witch?

[tanya]

Because the octomom already has her hands full.  A decent mother/grandma might have those same opinions but she wouldn't voice them to anyone except her own daughter certainly not appearing on national TV.  Personally if I had those opinions I would have stated them once and early on and after that I would BUTT OUT!!!  Even if she was staying at the g'ma's house, if she didn't like it she could kick her out not go around bad mouthing her on national TV. 

[StinkerBell]

I guess the argument could be made on the other side, that maybe her daughter should not place her in such a position. And one could argue that it would be more cruel to kick her out with all her kids then possibly having a off day and blurting something out to the media. Maybe a little grace could be afforded to the grandmother, I know I would not want to be in her shoes nor could I ever understand how much pressure/stress she herself is under.

[MountainDon]

I would like everyone here who is so concerned about how much govt. assistance she will receive to also be open minded enough to state how much taxes she will PAY when the movie deals, magazine articles, and promo gigs come in. 

Well, yes, when and if there are book earnings, movie earnings and what not, then she will be obligated to pay income taxes and that is good and proper.

However, that does not remove or alter the facts that she did not act responsibly in the first place, nor did the IVF doctor.

As for O-M's mother, I feel sorry for her. Grandma has probably reached the end of her patience; she has certainly reached the end of her family's funds, what with the grandparents bankruptcies. More than likely she was having one in a series of bad days. At one time grandma and grandpa were probably looking forward to the day they could have a grandchild or two around. I'm certain they did not plan on what amounts to a full time home childcare facility in their elder years.

[sparks]

In re to the topic...What Happened to self control ??




sparks

[tanya]

I just don't see how the g-ma can justify her bad mouthing at all.  SO WHAT if she had other expectatins, it is her daughters life to live not her own.  Also even if she is having a hard time of it what good could it possibly do to air that on national television?  Personally I think she is just looking for her OWN moment of fame.  Yes, she WILL pay taxes, as will her chilren when they get old enough so why shouldn't the public sector help out now in the interim time of crisis?  And no one but the mom and her medical providers could possibly know why she decided to have all the embryos implanted at once but my guess is she knew she had one more pregnancy left in her and she had 6 embryos that had to be implanted or lost. Maybe she just couldn't choose which ones to keep and which to flush?  

[tanya]

How is self control an issue for this woman? It isn't like she was out sexing it up, she went to a fertilization clinic and was implanted!!!  I am just glad the babies appear healthy and thriving.

[tanya]

"maybe her daughter should not place her in such a position. "  So it's OK then for parents who have a difference of opinion with their adult children to go out and bad mouth them on national TV?  IF she does have serious issues I am blaming that mother!!!

[MountainDon]

I don't believe anyone is seriously saying that they should all be tossed out on the street. People are saying they are upset with O-M's behavior.

And the grandmother has every right to voice her opinion in public if she wants to, just as you have the right to voice your opinion in this public forum. You don't have to agree with the grandmother; I don't have to agree with you.

[StinkerBell]

How is self control an issue for this woman? It isn't like she was out sexing it up, she went to a fertilization clinic and was implanted!!!  I am just glad the babies appear healthy and thriving.

I am hoping you are joking. But if you are not the self control issue is her numerous pregnancy via fertilization and with the numerous fertilization she had numerous implants with the last pregnancy.

[glenn kangiser]

I think her mom made her choices and raised her family and she should not be obligated to help raise her daughters children.  That may be how she feels about it too.  

While nearly all will help their children as they can, a parent,  cannot be expected to help raise a small city just because a mentally unstable child decided to have more kids than she can possibly handle.  

I'm afraid that after I got her to the safety of her own home I would have to close the door and walk away.  That isn't a family.  It's a herd.

[tanya]

Well I would LOVE to have that many grandchildren every day so I guess I am just NOT normal.  Believe me I am grateful for that.  AND by the way I am getting some mini goats to and I don't care how many people say it's crazy!!! And maybe that g-ma does have th right to voice her opinion publicly that doesn't make it GOOD TASTE or a supportive parent.  If I were that daughter I would take all those kids move into a nice hotel and tell that old hag to bug off!!!

[Jens]

Dog, you crack me up!!!

Ern, "who you can marry" wasn't directed at you, or any of the comments here so far, just one of my major beefs with the legal and religious views on marriage.  I definitely see advantages in marriage, but religious people (Christians most of the time, big surprising fascists there) generally look down on people who don't do it "right", by their standards.  Not everybody does everything the same way, in fact few people do anything the same way.  To say that one persons relationship will fail because they didn't do it the same way as the status quo is, well, arrogant.  If you have only done things one way, and have been blessed in it, then Adonai be praised, but don't sink somebody else's boat because they hand painted their letters instead of using the same store bought stencil. 

If I may offer up a metaphor, it would be like me telling all of you that you are going about your houses the wrong way, because you didn't hire a professional builder like me to build it.  Your houses have a much higher percentage of caving in on you, because you don't have the "proper" skills needed to do everything the way that I would.  In fact, it shouldn't even be allowed to build a house, unless you have designed it for at least 2 years, gotten a blessing from the manufacture of materials, then you buy everything at once, keep it in a storage unit, so that you know you have it all (the job, the house, the retirement, I know that isn't what you are saying, but is standard).  Then, once you have all of the tools necessary (remember, you can't go to the store during building), and all the materials, then you will definitely be able to build, it'll be safe, beautiful, and withstand the test of time.  And it is all because you did things the "right" way.  That is what it feels like to a person like me, or at least it did until I grew a beard.  My wife was getting "joked" with at work the other day, because she has 4 kids.  Basically the executive chef and the owners sister called her a slut, and an idiot.  They used more words to form their "playing", but in a nutshell that was it.  If she were 36, instead of 26, they wouldn't think those things.  It hurts me that so many people are so judgmental, sometimes I just want to put the fear of God into them.  But I simply hurt for them, and leave it at that, one should not return judgment for judgment. 

I'm taking a break for here for a while.  This whole thing here is making me sad.  Conversing in type is never a good way to get a point across. 

Shalom

[StinkerBell]

Well I would LOVE to have that many grandchildren every day so I guess I am just NOT normal.  Believe me I am grateful for that.  AND by the way I am getting some mini goats to and I don't care how many people say it's crazy!!! And maybe that g-ma does have th right to voice her opinion publicly that doesn't make it GOOD TASTE or a supportive parent.  If I were that daughter I would take all those kids move into a nice hotel and tell that old hag to bug off!!!

You are correct in saying it might not be in good taste, but you're in error to think she does not have the right to voice her opinion about her daughters behavior. She has the absolute right to say what she wants.

[StinkerBell]

Dog, you crack me up!!!

Ern, "who you can marry" wasn't directed at you, or any of the comments here so far, just one of my major beefs with the legal and religious views on marriage.  I definitely see advantages in marriage, but religious people (Christians most of the time, big surprising fascists there) generally look down on people who don't do it "right", by their standards.

Shalom

I find this statement interesting. You did say in an early post 

Bull, by reflective conviction, I mean that people base their dislikes, on things that they find in themselves, often without even knowing it.  They convict others, based on their own reflection, and they don't even realize they are looking at themselves.  I talk about this, not in view of the woman discussed here, but all of the judgments that get levied upon people who have kids young, or single, or get divorced, or are poor, rich, etc.

It would seem that you are doing the same here. What maybe offered to help your walk with God, given in love,  you see as fascist people who look down at you and judge you. Could you possibly be projecting your convictions, your own reflections on someone else?

[John_C]

That isn't a family.  It's a herd.

It's a science experiment.

[tanya]

Of course she has the right and Octomom has the OBLIGATION to keep that kind of negative abusive attitude away from her children!!!  

"but your in error to think she does not have the right to voice her opinion about her daughters behavior. "

I certainly NEVER said she didn't have the right, of course she had the right or she wouldn't be on national TV to begin with.  I state my opinions about my children's behavior on a regular basis but I have enough common decency to say it to their face and enough RESPECT to say it to them and NOT involve others.  I am sure that hag jsut wants her own moment of fame and is jealous of her daughters happiness and eventual prosperity.  

[StinkerBell]

I apologize tanya, I misread your statement. I disagree with your position, not entirely. However, I was wrong with my misreading of your comment. I am sorry for that.

[tanya]

Well you certainly don't have to apologize every time you mis read something.  I know I am harsh on this topic too.  I just feel for that mom who really is facing a tough time even though things eventually will work out fine I am sure. 

[StinkerBell]

It is indeed a tough topic.

[glenn kangiser]

The state is facing a tough time on this too.

"In California, a low-income family can receive Social Security payments of up to $793 a month for each disabled child. Three children would amount to $2,379.  She already has three that are disabled.

The Suleman octuplets' medical costs have not been disclosed, but in 2006, the average cost for a premature baby's hospital stay in California was $164,273, according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Eight times that equals $1.3 million.

For a single mother, the cost of raising 14 children through age 17 ranges from $1.3 million to $2.7 million, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, who is struggling to close a $42 billion budget gap by cutting services, declined through a spokesman to comment on the taxpayer costs associated with the octuplets' delivery and care."

She is on welfare but does not feel that it is welfare. 

That is so irresponsible.  Look at the costs.  We do not owe her anything.

http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/national/BO104376/

Oh yeah - and she wants to go to college to be a counselor.  Like she could offer advice that would be anything but twisted.

Sorry but I don't get it.

[MountainDon]

Thanks for the numbers, Glenn. I couldn't bear to total 'em up myself.

[StinkerBell]

I think the topic is tough because there is so many layers.

Should mentally unstable people be able to get invitro?
Should people who cannot afford/provide for children at the time of invitro be allowed to have invitro?
Should non married individuals be allowed to have invitro?
Should children be entitled to know both parents?
Should tax payers pay for peoples personal choice to have children when they can not provide?
Should there be a cap on how many implants should be made in a woman?
Should woman be able to have invitro when there is not a medical issue preventing pregnancy? (not having a man around is not a medical issue).
Should the state be paying for children when a mother gets a settlement check and uses the money not on her current family but get more invitro?
Should CPS (I hate CPS and even defended the mormons in a thread about them last year, thats how much I hate CPS..but this is one time I think they need to be involved) be involved?

This topic has many may layers.