Give Bush a grade

[glenn kangiser]

If we can't feel safe in our country nothing else should even matter for we have no future.
Thanks so much President Bush for following your convictions you felt in your heart to protect me and my
country even though you knew you would be scorned by many for your actions. History shall be kind for
your faithfullness to protecting our nation but so sad you aren't respected for it now.
Hey Guys; its probably not a good idea to discuss politics on this forum for it can bring up
some negative thoughts which is kind of putting a cloud over this otherwise great helpful site.
Lets stop the president bashing. Haven't we had enough the last eight years?
Government was designed by our forefathers to protect our freedom to live life where and how we
want not the other way around. We are a great group of people who choose to have a plot of land
and build a cabin where we want and can call our own and can enjoy the freedoms that so many have
fought and die for.

karnf, you are right about this possibly not making everyone feel great, and I know that people who chose not to face these issues do not continue to read them.  We must do it if we really care about our neighbor and fellow man.

It is important to discuss these issues here in the off topics section as this directly affects our families and the very reason many of us are choosing to build in the rural areas and away from major population areas a bit.

While it may not be pleasant it is a fact of the times we are in and will affect us, our families, our children and our way of life even if we choose to ignore it.  If we ignore it we cannot influence the future.  If we are aware of it we may make future choices that will influence the outcome by influencing the attitude of the masses.  Not looking is not healthy.

If we are to help ourselves we must realize that the people running the country and financial system are overcome with greed.... not benevolence.  They don't care an ounce about the working class and would knock us down and use the stack of bodies to climb the ladder to wealth and money.  I can't say success because as an insider security agent I met said, "I would not have thought they would go this far to forward their cause."  To sacrifice the 3000 people at 9/11.  He was talking about our government insiders,  He had direct knowledge and agreed they did it.

I can't thank Bush for protecting me from an inside job.  Sorry.  9/11 was what they call a false flag operation and more and more people are recognizing it as such.  They assisted it to forward their and Israel's agenda.

The supposed hijackers (who were not listed on the flight manifests} were mostly Saudi's and many were trained at our military bases.  The Saudi's are Bush family friends as are the Bin Ladens  (Google Bandar Bush) -- business partners with daddy Bush at the time - Carlysle group.  All he had to do was say, he buddy, how about a little help here.

So we attacked Afghanistan first --- Unocal said we needed a regime change there so the pipeline could go through.

Security here for giving up our freedom --- oh yeah - we still have the freedoms between the scribed lines.... I will not even fly due to the TSA humiliation? They have not caught one terrorist but have inflicted terror on many.

karnf.. rest assured that I only bring this up for the benefit of those I may get to open their eyes.  Hiding from the facts helps no one.  I am willing to die for my country as my forefathers and family fought for my right to do.  No problem, but that does not mean that our leaders are protecting us.  They are stealing from us and destroying the country we and our ancestors love in return for protecting us from the very terror they are creating.

Our government is not in this alone --- the so called coalition of the willing are pretty much in this together.   Big players, US, GB, Austalia.

Please continue to bear with us and learn -- stop believing what the main stream media feeds you -- research it on the internet before they close it down or put us on WWW2 where they control it also.

Best to all.  Lets continue the friendly discussion. 

[glenn kangiser]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtnE4C9Gv5U

8 years in 8 minutes

[Bishopknight]

A family member sent me that last night. Unbelievable. I'd say 98% of it I knew about. Its a good test to see how much news you've followed in the last 8 years.

I thought his mentioning Pat Tillman 3x was important.

[karnf]

Glenn,
I walked away from the digraceful biased "mainstream media" a year and a half ago. I will not
be controlled by their opinions and their so called reporting the news. Enough said.

[NM_Shooter]

All in all, I agree with karnf. 

Not a single one of us was sitting in on any of the security briefings that Bush received every single morning. 

I have to say that anyone who believes 9/11 was an "inside job" is more than mildly insane.   

I gave Bush a B-.  I would have given him a higher grade if:

1)  NAFTA had not been advanced.
2)  Borders tightened as a matter of federal priority
3)  Wars were run by Generals, not politicians
4)  Bailout $$$ were NOT provided
5)  Pardons provided to the border agents.

The primary thing that I do admire about Bush, was that he takes a long time to make a serious decision, and when he did, he stuck to it.  Even though some of those decisions I didn't agree with, I have to admire his ability to hold his ground.  We won't be getting this with our new president.

Every bit of the media is distorted.  Mainstream, not so mainstream, people's BLOGS, whatever. 

This is what I know:
Since 9/11, there has not been any major terrorist acts here in the US.  I'm struggling to think of US targets abroad that were serious.

My family's financial situation is mostly better.  Better income, although investments are down.

I am concerned with the economy.  I think lazy US workers (and unions), and crooked finance types are to blame.  I can't pin that on Bush.

All, in all, I still think a B-. 


-f-

[MountainDon]

8 years in 8 minutes

Keith Olberman is not exactly what you would call 'neutral' in his reporting; rather he comes from the far left. MSNBC, his employer, is also not exactly neutral in the slants they impose in their reporting of the news. Historically Olbermann is hard on Republicans, but soft on Democrats. As well, I feel he commonly has hypersensitive overreactions to events.

Let it be noted that Saturday Night Live accurately depicted Olberman as a pompous, dishonest buffoon who regularly takes things completely out of context, or just plain makes things up, in order to lambaste Republicans. There's a lot of truth in humor at times. Yet the media never reported a whisper of that, while they had all sorts of fun with Palin. They wouldn't dare; Olberman is one of their own cherished icons.

It took me a while to find the following, but here it is; Ben Affleck plays Olberman. I guess the left wing liberal Affleck does have a sense of humor. Here's a link to the Olberman segment from SNL along with a transcript for those with low bandwidth.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/11/02/snl-skewers-olbermann-pompous-buffoon

[MountainDon]

So far in this thread I have not graded...

B = Bush

[Jens]

This is what I know:
Since 9/11, there has not been any major terrorist acts here in the US.  I'm struggling to think of US targets abroad that were serious.

I think it pretty much runs on a 10 year plan if I remember right.  That doesn't spell too much good for the coming years.  What I am trying to say is, it may not have made a bit of difference that our government proceeded to scare the life out of so many of us after 9-11.  Maybe they were just waiting for their 10 year cycle to come back around for the next one.  Scary, and sad thought.  Recite Psalm 23 here.

[NM_Shooter]

Wow.  Pretty sloppy grammar on my part.  I gots to type less and proof read more.

[Dog]

For a while after 9/11 the "FOX News ALERTS" (ya, I watch FOX News) were way out of control. Yes...our country will never be the same for sure, but we cannot live in fear. We need to move ahead with some resemblance of hope and keep our country safe. As far as Olberman goes...he does brings up important issues with the Bush Administration even though he swings far left. I've tried to defend Bush, but just can't anymore. He didn't give a crap about the environment and I don't think he really has a clue how the American folks live and work to get by each day. Where did he think all the money was coming from? Foreign oil?...Monopoly money? Just keep printing more...?
Obama has his work cut out for him.
As far as a grade for Bush goes...He did keep us safe from another attack so I wouldn't flunk him completely and oh ya, he gave us each a $600 bonus last year to cheer us up!
F+. I guess that is a flunk.

[NM_Shooter]

   

I gave Bush a B-.  I would have given him a higher grade if:


5)  Pardons provided to the border agents.

-f-

Well, looks like Bush did a little extra credit work.  http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20090119/Bush.Pardons/

I'm raising his grade to a B. 

[glenn kangiser]

Hmm -- he finally did something I approve of.

[glenn kangiser]

With the existing ATC rules and procedures in 2001, 9/11 could not have happened without inside help.  There is no more to it than that.   It doesn't matter what the small details are.  That simple detail is fact.

I was actively flying and had my instrument and commercial license.  The procedures at that time would have had an airforce intercept on them within minutes.  The stand down order was not normal operating procedure.  The AT Controllers made a tape regarding the happenings immediately.  Their superior destroyed it. 

Any one who does not see the discrepancies on 9/11 has chosen to keep themselves uninformed, and I can sympathize with that.  No one wants to believe their leaders are that evil, but the greed that has caused the financial collapse should give you an idea of the caliber of people we are dealing with.

[StinkerBell]

glenn you know I love you, BUT......

When you make the statement

Any one who does not see the discrepancies on 9/11 has chosen to keep themselves uninformed, and I can sympathize with that.

you are assuming (to justify your position) that people have not scene/investigated the issues. Some have and yet still believe it was not an inside job. Some have come to the conclusion that those in charge at the time were incompetent.  Discrepancies might be seen, but a different conclusion has been drawn for others. Is our government evil? of course man is sinful, but I do not believe the great conspiracy of 9-11 and because I do not subscribe or share the same conclusion as you does not mean I kept myself uniformed because I am in denial of our evil leaders.

I still love you glenn in a non sexual harassing way, but I disagree with you.


Oh yes, it is ALL YOUR FAULT!

[MountainDon]

I see discrepancies in many of the claims made by the so called '9/11 truthers'.

Just to pick on one claim, that the towers were demolished with previously planted explosives. To me it is easy to understand how the twin towers fell. A large jetliner crashed into them at high speed. Thousands of gallons of burning jet fuel, plus the combustion of the building contents, rugs, curtains, furniture, reams of paper, not to mention all the plastics, heated the structure. Heated steel is very malleable. Ask any blacksmith. The shear weight of the building above the flames became too much for the steel to support. The steel did not need to melt, the heat and weight caused it to deform and that led to collapse. There was no need for explosives to have been planted.

As for the pre 9/11 air interception rules, for decades all our concerns had been focused outward. We were looking for Soviet air and sea intrusions; aircraft, missiles, submarines.

Many military installations such as the High Speed Test Track at Holloman AFB, Area 51 in Nevada, and portions of the Mojave Desert and so on, have always been no fly zones. If one tried to overfly those areas you would have an Air Force fighter soon appear, as those places have their own military aircraft. The pilot would indicate to fly one direction or another. What would happen if you chose to ignore the directions? The fighter would have appeared very menacing. But they would have no immediate orders that would automatically permit the pilots to shoot down the civilian aircraft.

Those orders would have to come from very high up the command chain. I would not expect there to be enough time for the orders to work their way through the system, pre 9/11.


And NO, I have not chosen to keep myself uninformed. I consider myself well informed. I have waded through many pages of 9/11, and other, conspiracy theories (mars lander, man on the moon), and watched the conspiracy theorist videos. They are replete with poor science and misinformation disseminated as scientific evidence.

Previous experiences have shown me there's absolutely no point in trying to debate the issues surrounding 9/11 with anyone who believes the attacks were an inside job. It's akin to attempting to convince an avowed atheist that God exits, or vice versa. That's why, until now, I've never bothered to challenge the conspiracy beliefs. I'm not getting drawn into a fruitless attempt at logical discussion, so that's that

[ScottA]

Too many things don't add up. The investigation was a white wash. Government officials have been very elusive when questioned about the investigations. While I don't belive that airliners brought down the towers I can accept it may be possible that they did. But how do you explain building 7? No plane hit it. No jet fuel burned inside it yet it collapsed too. Looking at video of the burning building it does not appear the be fully engulfed in flames only pockest of fire are visable. I would be more inclined to belive the offical version if the government would have been more open about the investigation. Why did Bush stall the investigation and try to underfund it? They gave us too many reasons to question the official version IMO. I also belive the 9/11 truth movment has been peppered with disinformation to discredit it in the eyes of the public.

I belive 9/11 was a false flag attack followed by a poorly executed coverup. Why did we invade Iraq? Bush himself admitted that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 yet prior to the war all we heard on TV was Iraq had a hand in 9/11. We need to invade Iraq because of 9/11. Now after the fact they try to pretend they never said that. I know they said it because I saw the prpaganda on TV myself. Why did we invade Afghanastan? The hijackers where all from Sudia Arabia. Why didn't we invade Saudi Arabia? It doesn't add up.

You give Bush a B. Ok that's your opinion but he has admitted to breaking the law and dared anyone to do anything about it. He refused to obey orders from congress he refused to answer questions under oath. If he is guilty on one single federal crime or even guilty of violating his oath of office he should be in jail. He doen't care one bit about the constitution he said so himself. I think it's sad that people think it's ok for him to break the law since he was suposedly protecting the country from terrorists. The law may not be perfect but it is the law for a reason. To prevent half baked wanna be dictators from abusing peoples rights. Who gets to decide which laws are ok to break and who gets to break them? That argument is BS and I don't buy it. Bush has done and said more than enough to at the very least deserve to be investigated and they won't even do that.

/rant off

[StinkerBell]

I agree ScottA with you on certain aspects of what Bush did (regarding the constitution) but where was congress, the senate and Supreme court justices? The President holds a third power and yes it can run amuck when the other branches do not step in, they are just as guilty with their complicity.

[ScottA]

No argument there. I agree 100%.

[Bishopknight]

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin

This is the flawed argument Bush defenders use... sacrificing one for the other.

[MountainDon]

Abraham Lincoln generally comes up in the top three of the best president's who ever served, no matter who is making up the list.

Abraham Lincoln assumed all powers not delegated in the Constitution, including the power to suspend  habeas corpus. Bush did basically the same thing.

I don't infer that Bush is as great a president as Lincoln, or that Lincoln was a bad president. I simply bring this up for those who have forgotten, or maybe were never taught that part of our history. Something to ponder.

[Dog]

Bush had a welcome home rally in Midland Texas... He seems to think he did a fabulous job and has no regrets.  He doesn't believe he passes on a burden to future generations... 

I have defended Bush in the past, but never with the loss of freedom in mind. He WAS our Commander in Chief and we didn't have another attack on his watch for 7 years. I am glad his reign is over though.

I honestly don't believe 9/11 was an inside job. I do question whether flight 93 was shot down.  The military knew exactly where that plane was going.

[peternap]

Abraham Lincoln generally comes up in the top three of the best president's who ever served, no matter who is making up the list.

Abraham Lincoln assumed all powers not delegated in the Constitution, including the power to suspend  habeas corpus. Bush did basically the same thing.

I don't infer that Bush is as great a president as Lincoln, or that Lincoln was a bad president. I simply bring this up for those who have forgotten, or maybe were never taught that part of our history. Something to ponder.

Uh sorry Don but when Lincoln's name is mentioned here in the South, we have to spit to get the taste out. He was a very bad president.

[John_C]

There is an interesting article on backwoods home about the best and worst Presidents.  The writers primary criteria is how closely the President abided by and upheld the Constitution.

His list    and the article is here   http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles/silveira49.html

"In each tier, I'll just list the Presidents chronologically:

On the first tier I would put almost any one of the first 15 Presidents, and a few others. This would include:

George Washington
Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
James Monroe
John Quincy Adams
Andrew Jackson
Martin Van Buren
John Tyler
James Polk
Zachary Taylor
Millard Fillmore
Franklin Pierce
James Buchanan
Rutherford Hayes
James Garfield
Chester Arthur
Grover Cleveland
Benjamin Harrison
William McKinley
Warren Harding
Calvin Coolidge
Herbert Hoover
Howard Taft

On the second tier I'd put:

John Adams
Andrew Johnson
Ulysses Grant

On the third I'd put:

Harry Truman
John Kennedy
Gerald Ford

On the fourth:

Theodore Roosevelt
Woodrow Wilson
Dwight Eisenhower
Lyndon Johnson
Richard Nixon
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan
George Bush
Bill Clinton

And at the bottom I'd put:

Abraham Lincoln
Franklin Roosevelt "

[glenn kangiser]

Of course, I agree with Scott.  Good expression of fact, Scott.

Don, with all of the heat that could melt steel, how do you explain this?  Asbestos lady?



Sorry - no heat - at least not enough to keep a person from walking across the building.  Steel is my work and I was a blacksmith working at a forge for a while.  The WTC was no where near a forge.  How the cutting charges got there is not something we can answer but there were opportunities.  Steven Jones - ex-BYU Professor proved the presence of thermate.

Controlled demolition as was the other two buildings.  There were no blowers - tuyeres as required to to get the fuel up to steel melting temperature.  The chairs rugs etc going down the elevator shaft to melt steel -- that was a good one - no air with the solid fuel-- that is what you do to put a fire out. 

Buying the official ridiculous explanation is only for those who don't want to see or dig into the scientific facts and at least coming up with questions if not answers.   I'm not putting anyone down for taking the easy way and just accepting the lies you are handed.  It is what the masses have been trained to do. The system is geared to make you accept lies and not question authority no matter how ridiculous the lies they tell you.     

White is black and black is white.  Orwell 1984

[glenn kangiser]

glenn you know I love you, BUT......

When you make the statement

Any one who does not see the discrepancies on 9/11 has chosen to keep themselves uninformed, and I can sympathize with that.

you are assuming (to justify your position) that people have not scene/investigated the issues. Some have and yet still believe it was not an inside job. Some have come to the conclusion that those in charge at the time were incompetent.  Discrepancies might be seen, but a different conclusion has been drawn for others. Is our government evil? of course man is sinful, but I do not believe the great conspiracy of 9-11 and because I do not subscribe or share the same conclusion as you does not mean I kept myself uniformed because I am in denial of our evil leaders.

I still love you glenn in a non sexual harassing way, but I disagree with you.


Oh yes, it is ALL YOUR FAULT!

I'm, a whore, Stinky, but they can't buy me that easily...

...and of course I still love you too, even though you are misled easily.  I realize you can't help it though.  That's what love is all about...