Reedbed septic...idle curiousity

[Onkeludo2]

So I am sitting here in Kuwait wasting time until I can get home on a flight for R&R.  I have been reading a lot of back posts and two things keep coming up as challenges to building inexpensively, septic and wells.

My question is about septic.  When I was building Iraqi Army bases in 2006-2007 one of the biggest challenges was build waste water treatment that was, for lack of a better term, idiot-proof.  Not to disparage another culture but routine maintenance is not the specialty of the Iraqi people so containerized WWT plants were out.  At three of the bases we built the governing body approved a reed bed system.  This is basically an evap pool that is planted with an overgrowth of a native reed.  The concept is that the raw sewage feeds the reeds, the reeds shade the pool and by the time evaporation, enzymatic action and the reeds consuming the broken down solids do their thing, what little water enters the soil is clean and clear.  Keep in mind that soil here would not pass the loosest perk test imaginable.

I assume this is extremely conditions based but has anyone ever heard of such a thing for certain climates and soil conditions in the US?

Mike

[Sherry]

I have read about this being used on a community-type basis in the US but I can't remember where.  Meaning, I can't remember where I read about it or where it was being used or proposed.  I think it is considered something more environmentally beneficial and advanced than current septic systems or sewers.  I do remember it being referred to as "constructed wetlands", so maybe a search for that term would yield results.

Please let us know what you find out.

Sherry

[glenn kangiser]

I haven't heard of it being used here as most US systems after the standard septic system with a leach field  go to highly specialized  money makers for the health department and some high tech manufacturer.  Low tech doesn't cut it in the US if there is another dollar to be squeezed out by bureaucrats or corporate America.

As to that type of a system, one of our members in South America mentioned a similar one using Banana plants as the evaporators and water purifiers. Apparently the bananas were still edible if kept clean.

[glenn kangiser]

Reed Bed info

http://www.johnstonsmith.co.uk/fact17.html

http://www.yes-reedbeds.co.uk/advantages.htm

[NM_Shooter]

We have some reed bed septic systems here in Corrales, NM.  I can't imagine why anyone would want to do this if a standard septic field was an option.  There is still some, um... fragrance that you get with them. 

Oddly, the two that I know of are in what I think are odd locations.  One serves an elementary school, the other serves a restaurant. 

[considerations]

A reed bed concept is my plan for my grey water....proof will be in the "pudding", but that's the plan. 

[Onkeludo2]

NM Shooter...trust me, the odor is better than the honey wagons that transport the raw material to the first station.  In Iraq, most everything is flat so they use collection tanks and honey wagons.  Lift stations would be an option but again, the lack of preventative maintenance as a part of their culture would preclude that.

I have been home on R&R now for a week and I am still amazed at two things you do not realize you miss...the silence and the sweet smell.  We always wake to the odor of raw sewage, burning trash, dust and diesel exhaust while the constant drone of helicopters, generators and the practice range 150 feet away assault your ears.  I was sitting outside playing with the dogs last night when it hit me that even in the city...it is sooo quiet and it smells like honeysuckle!

Now back to my remodeling...I hate drywall work but it is nice to be working with my hands again!

[JavaMan]

NM Shooter...trust me, the odor is better than the honey wagons that transport the raw material to the first station.  In Iraq, most everything is flat so they use collection tanks and honey wagons.  Lift stations would be an option but again, the lack of preventative maintenance as a part of their culture would preclude that.

I have been home on R&R now for a week and I am still amazed at two things you do not realize you miss...the silence and the sweet smell.  We always wake to the odor of raw sewage, burning trash, dust and diesel exhaust while the constant drone of helicopters, generators and the practice range 150 feet away assault your ears.  I was sitting outside playing with the dogs last night when it hit me that even in the city...it is sooo quiet and it smells like honeysuckle!

Now back to my remodeling...I hate drywall work but it is nice to be working with my hands again!

Welcome home!  And thanks!

And to keep it on topic, I would like to do a reed thing - it sounds like it would work - if I had water enough for a small "swamp"

[Sherry]

There is a mention of the reed or meadow type of septic installed in a house being built in Silicon Valley in the July/August 2010 issue of Atlantic magazine.

Pretty funny, if you ask me.  The article is titled "Xanadu" and subtitled "A California couple seeks to build the world's greenest home".  Yeah, sure.  It's 5600 sf to begin with, and has reclaimed stone left over from the construction of Chicago skyscrapers.  How deluded are some people about having their cake and eating it, too?  Wouldn't you think the LEED Program would give them some demerits for that kind of nonsense?

[glenn kangiser]

Saw this yesterday - shows using a reed filter for gray water then growing rice on the roof with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88gb3QWA7i0

[firefox]

Strange, have people forgotten what rice patties consist of?
I guess I'm just an old Marine with memories of taking a shortcut
through a rice patty in my dress blues.

[glenn kangiser]

I think the little one on top of the house would be less messy than a big field patty.  I already run my greywater separate.  This idea could make an interesting area at the end of the greywater line.  I have cattails and mosquito fish at the spring down the hill.

I also have a rice growing experiment going in a small kids splash pool.  I understand you can grow about 15 lbs in one.

[freezengirl]

Try searching for lilly pads/marsh grass type words in google.  I know that it has been done on a commercial basis here in the US.  There was a long article with a lot of pictures comparing a system like that with a "normal" sewage treatment facility.  I can't remember anything more about it or where I came across it.  My daughter spent a lot of time discussing sewage treatment with her godfather (ran a treatment plant) and spent a lot of time going over the idea with him vs. the traditional way.  It was quite funny, I am pretty sure I am one of the few mothers that had her five year old kid mad at her because she missed the opening of a sewage treatment plant.  Where did this child come from?

[freezengirl]

I found a couple of links that might help.

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive    Look for article titled Aquatic Plants for Wastewater Treatment six pages long.

For more information then you might ever need or want to know:Treatment Wetlands by Robert H.Kadlec and Scott Wallace Barnes and Noble

[glenn kangiser]

Hmm - didn't find anything there, Freezengirl, but did find a lot at a search of the NASA site.

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?N=0&Ntk=all&Ntx=mode%20matchall&Ntt=sewage%20treatment

Didn't know they did that, thanks.

[freezengirl]

Lets try this.  I did the google search for nasa aquatic plants for waste water treatment

ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.../19930073073_1993073073.pdf   I guess I need more coffee this a.m.

[ben2go]

I think the little one on top of the house would be less messy than a big field patty.  I already run my greywater separate.  This idea could make an interesting area at the end of the greywater line.  I have cattails and mosquito fish at the spring down the hill.

I also have a rice growing experiment going in a small kids splash pool.  I understand you can grow about 15 lbs in one.

Glenn,do you by chance have info on using cattails and skeeter fish in small aquatic environments?Also,do you have a thread for your rice experiment?I'm interested in that idea you're using.



Back on subject.We have retention ponds that capture polluted run off rain water to keep it out of the local creeks and streams.They use some form of reeds and when the pounds dry up a really beautiful big bladed grass grows in.I believe something similar could work.Sooooo, I guess a search for retention pond could turn up something also.

[glenn kangiser]

I'm a bit lax in that area, Ben.  

I do have cattails and mosquito fish in my pond at the spring, but no info except that the county brings in free mosquito fish for people to get for their ponds annually.  No noticeable mosquito larvae there although we always seem to have plenty of mosquitoes.  They seem to be doing their job.

I was at first thinking that the rice that I got was not going to grow.  I soaked it for 24 hours then put it in a starter bed per a PDF I found.  Today as I was throwing out the compost, I found a bunch of the rice growing.  I covered up what was left and will check it again in a few days -- If I get enough to start something I could start a thread on it.  This is not really the right time of year to start it but I couldn't wait, so figured it would start but may not make it through the winter.  I guess we will see and I can keep you posted.

For now, here is a link to the page that I started my experiment from.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/732313/how_to_grow_rice_in_your_garden.html?cat=32

After that I found more info and modified some of my future methods per the PDF.

Here is a link to the PDF

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=25&ved=0CJABEBYwGA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjourneytoforever.org%2Ffarm_library%2Fsrimanual.pdf&rct=j&q=grow%20rice&ei=egSHTIKGMoOcsQOTr7iHCg&usg=AFQjCNFlppQca_QI2ClWyX3Kbv4CcZRxwQ&sig2=x9dKioPd43hvuwlFqINIzg&cad=rja

I learned that there are tons of genetic engineering going on with Rice also.  The global economy - we must not forget it....our corporations are trying to take over the food production all over the world.  They are getting in trouble for trying to circumvent price protection for the poor of Venezuela.  They are contracted to produce a percentage of low cost rice for the poor but instead are parboiling it and selling it at higher cost and not producing even the percentage of the cheaper rice they agreed to ...typical greed.


I am considering constructing a reed bed pond at the end of our grey water drain also- bringing up cattails from the spring for a wate feature here - kicking it around upstairs for a while now.  

[ben2go]

Thanks for the info Glenn.

I had heard rumors of the rice problem in SA but didn't understand the issue.

Since we have been seriously looking at land lately,I have considered a grey water system using plants.I saw a documentary on tv about using plants, in shallow tanks, that hold,and treat the waste water.Gave me some idears.

[MikeC]

Here, the constructed wetland is known as a sewage lagoon IIRC.  The lagoon contains cattails etc with a large enough surface area to ensure aerobic conditions.  It is preceded in flow by a septic tank for solids removal.  I'm told they work well, no outflow as the surface area provides sufficient evaporation are too.  But, if used infrequently there can be odor once the inflow is re-established.  Sometimes lagoons are used in series for "polishing" treatment if there is an outflow to a watercourse.

Obviously these all require fencing to keep out pets & people.