16' x 20' cabin design

[glenn-k]

A lady a few miles from here gave a "professional" $35000 to install a system for her.  She was in a fog area part time.  He did not even sell her a backup generator in that price.

She went to try her system out -- stayed one night -- dead batteries -- totally unusable.  I made suggestions but he was their chosen installer and he got mad when I tried to help her out.  He was going to step out of the deal before they purchased from him, but they managed to talk him out of it.  I just stayed clear of it.  The gal was a bit determined to do things their own way.   Her attitude was such that I did not try to sway it.  I just did the septic system and got out of there.

You will not get much on cloudy days - maybe 5 percent.  How about a wind generator.  Got Wind?

[MountainDon]

... at least the rain will keep the panels clean...  

Ah! A topic dear to my heart! I interpret "sun panel" to mean a solar photovoltaic panel to make electricity. There are a lot of internet resources, some better than others. An excellent no BS vendor would be   http://www.thesolar.biz    in New Mexico. They have a nice website that you can browse, but they do all their dealing over the phone with a real live person! Give them a call. Be prepared with a list of what electrical items you would just absolutely need to have, those you'd like and so on. (You can also find various worksheets on the web and workup some numbers yourself.) Thesolar.biz not only sells alternative power equipment but they live and run their business off solar; practise what they preach, so to speak. There's also backwoodssolar.com  from Idaho at   http://www.backwoodssolar.com      They have a print catalog they will mail out that has some good info for learning about how things work and what does what. They do seem to cost more tha thesolar.biz, but worth a look. They also live what they sell.

A system to store electricity for night time and cloudy day use requires a bank of batteries among other goodies. How many depends on your power use and days without sun. One thing you can do, since this will be a new from the ground up thing is eliminate the power hogs. Use those compact fluorescent screw in bulbs, no electric space heaters, an energy efficient fridge (a Sunfrost would be great if you can afford it), no refrigerated air conditioning, etc. It is surprising how much you can cut down your power usage. Of course developing a habit to turn off lights helps a lot, tho' with those compact FL lights there's a trade off in durability. If you turn them on-off too frequently they don't last out their full life potential. But they use about 25% the power of a wasteful regular light bulb/heater. Batteries add to the cost of a system.

I will be having an off grid sytem for the cabin in the woods. I'm lucky in having an excellent solar south facing spot and being in NM where the sun shines a lot. I also have a grid-tie on my city home that supplies a portion of our needs there. On a good sunny day the systen usually produces a surfeit of power and it sells back to the power company at the same rate I buy power from them. Meter runs backwards. City home also has a battery bank, meant only to carry us over in a power outage. Only some lighting circuits and the fridge and freezer run off the batteries / inverter. There's also a backup generator; which the off grid site will need as well.

Anyways, I've run off at the mouth again... I'll step off the soapbox and say goodnight.

[Amanda_931]

I read in a mystery story once that parts of the Aleutians get less than a week's worth of sunny days.

Solar anything won't work there.  especially since, in the wintertime days are so short.

This is the first of these pages (some are maps) that I found.  How many hours/day are you likely to have sun, summer and winter.

http://www.solar4power.com/solar-power-insolation-window.html

links to maps here:

http://www.solar4power.com/solar-power-global-maps.html

The U.S.Canada map shows us a little lower than some of the other maps--and people do just fine here--except for the first two weeks in January--at least once a decade we see no sun at all during that period (although once I saw stars during that time--so I knew that the sky hadn't completely disappeared).

[MountainDon]

Thanks Amanda.
Oh my goodness! I just looked at the solar map   http://www.solar4power.com/map2-global-solar-power.html     and  solar potentail is about nil! Try for wind power???

[Amanda_931]

Getting a tower high enough without disturbing the neighbors would be a problem in town.

No wind to speak of right where I am--half-way down a very large hill.  It has its good points.  I can fairly cheerfully ignore tornado warnings.  But when I used to walk out by Old Hickory Dam every evening, some months it looked like there was wind enough for an efficient turbine.

And like I said, the figures on that map look pretty low to me.  Three and a half or four hours a day of sunlight, when some friends down in a hole have all the comforts of home, mostly run their generator in January.  And count their sunlight as four or five hours a day.

[MountainDon]

And like I said, the figures on that map look pretty low to me.  Three and a half or four hours a day of sunlight, when some friends down in a hole have all the comforts of home, mostly run their generator in January.  And count their sunlight as four or five hours a day.

I believe the hours before 10 AM and after something like 2 PM don't count for as much as the hours within the more productive timeframe. The further north you go the worse things are in winter... gets dark early

[Amanda_931]

Unless you've got some sort of tracking.  Even if it's going outside and turning the array by hns.  I've seen it done!

[youngins]

MountainDon,

Our 5 acres is just north of you - just outside Fort Garland, Colorado. We are both in a good area for PV.

So, did you say you are putting your panels on the tops of those trees?  

Chris

[MountainDon]

MountainDon,
We are both in a good area for PV.
So, did you say you are putting your panels on the tops of those trees?  

Chris

Fortunately, as well as those tall Ponderosa Pines there's a meadow on the south end with a wide open southern exposure...

[/img]

Loads of PV potential.

You are located a bit east of one of my favorite Colorado locales; the Silverton - Ouray area. Love the 4WD opportunities

[glenn-k]

... and the gigantic hot spring

[MountainDon]

... and the gigantic hot spring

...not so lucky...  :'(  hot spring is down the road a ways. There are honest to good hot springs scattered throughout these mtns. Some better called warm; others actually hot, but none hot enought o burn ya. Just a few miles north is the Valle Caldera, now a National Preserve. It's the site of an ancient volcano and sits  on top of a whole lot of geo thermal power potential. However, being a preserve that won't happen. The Valle is also the home of one of the largest Elk herds. They (elk) also wander around my land at will.    And one last tidbit of local info, Ted Turner (CNN) has one of his large ranches nearby as well.

[Amanda_931]

If anybody but me had trouble with that picture:

https://[img]i133.photobucket.com/albums/q75/djmillerbucket/landscape/lightsnowfallviewtosouthmeadow.jpg

this works:

https://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q75/djmillerbucket/landscape/lightsnowfallviewtosouthmeadow.jpg

[littlegirlgo]

Solar fridge - another option for a solar fridge is a Sundanzer.
http://www.sundanzer.com/
They will run off a 75 watt solar panel. Cheaper then sunfrost. I have looked at two in peoples homes and plan to get one for my off grid home in Ky.

[Amanda_931]

I'm not at all sure I could deal with a chest type refrigerator.

I am told that the people I know in the county who have them love them.  Certainly, for the money it's better than no refrigerator.  But the source isn't always trustworthy.

All of those very low power jobs use the same compressor.  Rumor hath it that the big difference is that horizontal sealing gasket in the Sunfrost.

[littlegirlgo]

I had a chest style propane refridge once and I did not mind the bending over. But I can see where some might not want that. The advantage is the cold air does not fall out thus not losing as much energy when you open them. Sundanzers have an electrolux made compressor/ motor which is a little different then Sunfrosts.

Happy New Year all  

[MountainDon]

That's what I figured... the cold air doesn't spill out of a chest fridge. But having a small chest freezer for many years I know I would not be happy with a chest fridge. So I have to pay the costs associated with an upright.

[Caroline]

Hello,

Not sure if anyone will get this question as I have not posted anything for a while, but I was wondering if any of you have thoughts on future expanxsion for my 16' x 20' cabin... I am about to decide where to set it on the land and I would like to consider this now...

One thought I have is to actually leave space for another smaller (10 x 12?) cabin and then join the two with a dogtrot...

The land is 100' x 25', a long thin strip with the view running along one of the long sides.

Any creative suggestions?
Caroline

[glenn-k]

We'll talk to you even though you haven't been real sociable.  Looks like you are trying to mend your ways.

That could work as well as a future room added off to the side as in the Victoria's Cottage or Enchilada Plans Kit.

[desdawg]

Caroline, are you on septic or sewer? On a lot that narrow you would have to be careful where you place your septic system so it doesn't interfere with your future expansion. And make it deep enough so you can maintain 1/4" per foot fall from the second structure's plumbing. Just a thought since I install septic systems (and other utilities). Even if you are on a sewer system you will need to make sure you bring your sewer line in deep enough to accomodate.

[Caroline]

The cabin is in town, so I will be connected to the sewer system. But thanks for pointing that out... I am planning to walk around the property next week with the contractor, so we'll look at these things then.

I really like the Victoria Cottage. I will talk to the contractor and see if the plans would come in handy...

The project is set to start in March. I will post pics when trhings are under way. I can't wait!

Thanks!
C.

[Caroline]

Hey there...

Anybody has advice regarding windows?

I really like wooden windows, but the wind and rain in the Northwest take their toll on them.
Any suggestions?

Caroline

[MountainDon]

Hey there...

Anybody has advice regarding windows?

I really like wooden windows, but the wind and rain in the Northwest take their toll on them.
Caroline

Here in the SW the sun is the wood killer. plus the usual low, single digit, humidity except for July when the monsoons come, plays havoc as well.

For what it's worth I like Pella windows. I have a housefull of them, some double hung and some casement. All have the Pella aluminum cladding on the exterior for lowest maintenance, and natural wood on the inside. Best of everything as far as I'm concerned. My opinion only.  

I also have a house I rent out that is fitted with locally made extruded vinyl windows. They're double hung. I like them, no maintenance, but don't really like the white vinyl look. They weren't as expensive as the Pella either.

I also have a couple of aluminum windowed condos and they are my least favorite window.

[borgdog]

I really like your 16x20 plan, and the idea to add on later is a good one that I plan to follow as well.  You do want to make sure you know where you wish to add on so you can leave an access to get to it.  Right now you only have a front door, and the only real other way I could see to add on would be through the bedroom, which would make that room less than functional as a bedroom.  You could also take out the washer/dryer and put a door/hallway there, but that would involve moving lots of plumbing.  My current thought is to not have a bedroom in my initial 16x20 (I do have the VC plans BTW, and love them) but use the loft area for sleeping, and later on my addition would be a bedroom on the main level.  This would allow for a much larger living room area in the initial cabin/house.

[Amanda_931]

A while back, some of us fell in love with some Mexican windows--all steel, lots of little panes, may have only opened a block of panes in the center, big windows.  They may still be available in this country as industrial windows, probably remarkably expensive.

I want louvers on my screen porches.  One of which would be used for sleeping, so I'd really rather not have rain blowing inside.

Both kinds of windows are kind of scarce right now, they tend to be leaky/uninsulatable.  We don't do that any more.

I have enough issues with "chemicals" that I'd avoid vinyl windows (I don't qualify as chemically sensitive--for which I am truly grateful--but I probably would have if I'd worked in polluted areas much longer).  Probably go with aluminum as an economy choice (but do consider acid rain and "white rust").  

Absolutely, with Dan on thinking in advance where an addition could be built.  Especially on your city lot.

Also consider things like fire exits, what happens if you wake up in the middle of the night with the stomach flu, and other, ahem, fine merchandise (long story) that we always ignore when we consider how wonderful things will be in our new houses.

[Caroline]

Amanda & MountainDon:
Thanks for the input on the windows... I have a friend who built a house here 2 yrs ago and he chose aluminum clad wood windows. I must say they are very pretty, though a bit more expensive. I am leaning towards that choice... I thought that perhaps I would choose windows that do not open facing the view (and bad weather), and have the other double-hung for air circulation. The only problem is in the bedroom - I would either have to keep the bathroom door (& window) open to have air current, or have part of the view window "openable". Do you think that aluminum clad wood windows would keep the rain out (imagine gusts of wet wet rain)? What about rot under the metal cladding over time? I am considering buying from a Calgary-based company called Gienow. Their website is:  http://www.gienow.com/index.asp

Dan:
I also see the future addition coming through the bedroom. My thought is that this bedroom would become an "office" or reading/writing room, and I would add on a small bedroom. I am not sure that I will ever do it, but it is nice to have the option - ya never know! The bed will be built in for the current bedroom, but could always be gently taken apart and re-used in the new bedroom.

One more question: what about the floors? I have an affection for wood. I really like the wide planks (like @ 6' across) but I wonder if the cabin is too small for that or it there are more problems with them down the line. Any ideas?

Cheers, Caroline