Author Topic: 17x24 East Tx Cabin  (Read 54763 times)

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Offline nathan.principe

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17x24 East Tx Cabin
« on: September 27, 2010, 01:52:54 PM »
Hello All, not sure what took me so long to register, but here I am!  I would like to share my project with you that my wife and I are building in East Tx ( 2hrs away from our home in Dallas).  I have done much research in preperation for building but I am still learning more everyday.  So with that being said, any and all input is welcome ( critiquing, concerns, ideas, etc.)  I will try to post as many pics as I can as I go along, and if you have a question about something that is not clear in a photograph just ask and Ill be happy to give details.  Enjoy!



















This is my progress to date

Offline cbc58

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Re: 17x24 East Tx Cabin
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2010, 02:41:11 PM »
looks good.  have a floorplan you could share?  kind of interesting the way you extended the support beams... almost tree-house like.  i like it.


Offline nathan.principe

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Re: 17x24 East Tx Cabin
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2010, 03:57:02 PM »
yea I do, let me dig it out and Ill take a pic of it and post it

Offline MountainDon

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Re: 17x24 East Tx Cabin
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2010, 05:20:15 PM »
I have a question on the beams. The beams appear to be 4x12. Is that correct; two 2x12's with a spacer sheet?  They are on 8 foot centers, as well?  I ask because using Table 502.5(1) in the IRC for a roof, ceiling and one center bearing floor, two 2x12 could be used at a pier spacing of 8'1" for a 20 foot wide building. Yours is slightly narrower so there would be some small additional safety factor. However with the extra floor at one end that may be pushing the limits a tad far.  Of course if this is from a set on engineered drawings, that may be completely fine. It is just something that I wonder about.  (two floors in Table 502.5(1) lists pier spacing at 6'8")

One other concern that comes to mind also centers around the beams. The end extending beyond the outer end wall could be a potential source for the ingress of water. The protruding end could be a pathway for water to be drawn under the floor joist and along the beam. That could lead future rot issues.


We don't see many truss floors around here, especially ones with OSB side plates. Are they factory made or owner built from a plan set?

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

Offline MountainDon

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Re: 17x24 East Tx Cabin
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2010, 05:40:27 PM »
One other thing that nags at me... the stair stringers.  It appears that the spacing is greater than 16 inches. maybe appearances are deceiving. 16 inch is fairly normal and in some places those stairs would be required to have stringers at 12 inch OC. My mind keep running a picture of 4 or more football players running down the stairs.


Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.


Offline bayview

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Re: 17x24 East Tx Cabin
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2010, 03:21:16 AM »


   It looks like you have a great start on your home . . .

   If I may ask, Why is your first floor platform so high off the ground?

   I also, am interested in your floor plan . . .

/.
    . . . said the focus was safety, not filling town coffers with permit money . . .

Offline nathan.principe

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Re: 17x24 East Tx Cabin
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2010, 05:01:09 AM »
Thanks for all the input everyone, Ill get to the floor plan today ( its really simple and probably wont surprise anyone  :-[

MountainDon- You seem to be a celebrity around here so your keen eye to detail is much apprieciated.  To answer your questions, you are right on the size of beams, excluding the spacer, only double 2"x12".  I had the very same concern you did, so if you take a closer look at the picture showing the stairs and the very next one, you will see additional posts.  Under the portion of the beams that carry the load of the 2nd floor I installed 2 more additional posts per 8' section ( this gives me post approx 29" o.c.). For the rest of the beam I dropped in 4"x6" posts between all the rest of the 8' spans, making the spans 4' o.c.   What really bugged me is I used 4"x4" posts  d* this is the main reason for all the "beefing up".

                   In regards to the beams extending further from the end walls I had never considered your point, they are more of a "design detail",  what can be done about that now?

                   The stairs are a work in progress, the joist hangers you see in the picture are temperary and only served as means of keeping the stringers in place till I could sink a 1/4" lag from behind.  My end goal is to install railings on the stairs and porch and when I do I plan on extending a 4x4 post from the ground on either side right up snug the stairs and porch and bolt in place to both the stairs and porch, the post will extend up to become part of the railings.  do you think I need to do this more to the center of the end stringers as well?



Bayview- The answer to your question is nothing scientific.  We wanted to gain a higher vantage point to extend our views as much as possible, also I just think its kindda cool.  As cbc58 mentioned, its kinda like a treehouse effect

Offline MountainDon

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Re: 17x24 East Tx Cabin
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2010, 05:34:41 AM »
I see the extra posts..... they just didn't "register" upstairs...   d*



... the beams extending further from the end walls I had never considered your point, they are more of a "design detail",  what can be done about that now?


chainsaw.   ;D  Just cut off the ends with a chain or reciprocating saw.   The protrusions could also be flashed as long as you can still get the flashing slipped in under the sheathing and have it extend out over the top of the beams.


There might be a similar concern with the beam that extends under the entrance porch. Not sure what can be done at this point on that other than keep an eye on the integrity of the beam over the future years. Depending on how wet it gets it may not be a problem.



Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

Offline cbc58

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Re: 17x24 East Tx Cabin
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2010, 05:58:41 AM »
another idea on those protruding supports is to place a board on top of them to create a shelf (angled slightly to shed water) and put plants on there.  siding/flashing would have to be done really well.  just an idea if you have to keep them for design.  maybe the pros here can say if that is feasible.


Offline nathan.principe

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Re: 17x24 East Tx Cabin
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2010, 11:05:28 AM »
As  Promised here is the floor plan,  I had to redraw it so im not sure all measurements are 100% accurate, but very very close.  The loft is represented by the perforated line and sits above the kitchen and bathroom.  The fire place will be electric and have bookcases built around.  Hope this helps


Offline nathan.principe

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Re: 17x24 East Tx Cabin
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2010, 06:29:47 PM »
MountainDon,I forgot to answer your truss question.  I made the trusses my self, I did not have them engineered.  I did some research and modeled them after others that I have seen in a similar situation.  The reason for doing this ( and using OSB) was cost.  To make them myself was pretty labor intensive, but I found it was cheaper ( and lighter) than then standard dimensional lumber.  I feel they ended up good, they are super rigid and the floor has no give.

Offline MountainDon

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Re: 17x24 East Tx Cabin
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2010, 06:41:51 PM »
I haven't seen anyone make trusses for a long time. Many years ago I made some using plans from a publication from one of the ag universities. They used plywood plates and waterproof resorcinol glue, plus nails. They were roof trusses but the principles are much the same. I was just wondering how these came about. You are darn right on them being labor intensive.

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

Offline sharbin

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Re: 17x24 East Tx Cabin
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2010, 11:39:26 AM »
Nice and, may I add, professional work. [cool]
I have noticed that you have barrels with tubes coming out of it.... what is it for?

Offline nathan.principe

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Re: 17x24 East Tx Cabin
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2010, 01:48:05 PM »
hahaha, I was waiting for someone to comment on that.  That was my attempt at a small homemade septic system, after I brought it out to the site, I didnt get far on the installation before I was notified that I would need a permit and inspection for a septic ( I was told through the HOA that I wouldnt need a permit for anything, shouldve know better).  So for now a septic is on the back burner.  And while Im on the topic, Does anyone have personal experience with a composting toilet?  or electric incinerating toilet?  My 2 big questions are : do they give off oder when confined in a small space, and can you use it for #1 or just #2?  I am thinking I can get by having a simple "grease trap" or "dry well" type septic as long as theres no sewage involved ( only for sink and shower)  what do you guys think?


Offline bayview

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Re: 17x24 East Tx Cabin
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2010, 02:01:07 PM »

MountainDon- You seem to be a celebrity around here so your keen eye to detail is much apprieciated. 


   Celebrity!  There will no living with him now!    :)

/.
    . . . said the focus was safety, not filling town coffers with permit money . . .

Offline MountainDon

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Re: 17x24 East Tx Cabin
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2010, 02:04:41 PM »
Re the septic, with no actual toilet sewage. Most places that allow gray water systems do not count the kitchen sink as gray water. At least from what I've seen here, that is the general policy. You should check on the local rules for that.  Gray water systems frequently do not allow storage of the water and do not allow above ground discharge.

As for compsting toilets, one can always try the 5 gallon bucket and wood shavings method. I have been told by a couple who used such a thing for several years it worked well. They do now have a standard toilet and septic. Others have used such things for years.

We have a Sun-Mar composting toilet (AC/DC model). It is designed to handle liquid waste. It has a liquid evaporation tray and an overfloww. Our overflow has never flowed any over.   ;D  There is no smell. However, be warned that composting action ceases around 50 degrees F. If the toilet sits for periods of time in cooler temperatures it becomes a collection vessel, not a composter.

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2335.msg59916#msg59916

https://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q75/djmillerbucket/jemez%20mtn%20property/mimi-IMG_3549.jpg

Some of the composting toilets require separation of the liquids and solids. That's too much bother as far as my personal choices. I didn't like the pee here, poop there approach. A tree is one of my alternates.

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

Offline bayview

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Re: 17x24 East Tx Cabin
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2010, 02:19:57 PM »


   We also had looked into separating waste and gray water.   

   As MtDon mentioned . . .    There are quite a few requirements.   Generally so prohibitive that it is just as easy to install a conventional septic system.

   Follow this link for Texas requirements.


/.
    . . . said the focus was safety, not filling town coffers with permit money . . .

Offline nathan.principe

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Re: 17x24 East Tx Cabin
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2010, 02:46:45 PM »
Thanks Bayview and MD, that document was a big help.  I do realize that there is a reason for the regulations, but I can already tell this is going to be my least favorite part of the project :(

Offline phalynx

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Re: 17x24 East Tx Cabin
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2010, 02:53:26 PM »
Septic was a piece of cake for me.  I used the infiltrator systems and installed the whole thing myself.  In my county, there are no inspections or permits for septic systems installed on property of 10 acres or more.

Offline nathan.principe

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Re: 17x24 East Tx Cabin
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2010, 03:04:33 PM »
Phalynx, I would owe you big if you could give me more details on the system your talking about, etc.  costs, time for installation, how big is tank and leach feild?  I ask this because mine will have to be hand dug ( there is now way to get heavy equip to the site, or funds for it)  pics would also be helpful if you had em, thx in advance


Offline muldoon

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Re: 17x24 East Tx Cabin
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2010, 03:14:13 PM »
phalynx, I owe you big already. 

I called around when I bought the property about permits and such.  I was told the county had no permits but that the state of Texas REQUIRED the septic permit, and REQUIRED the septic be signed off by a certified installer.  After reading your comment I went to look it up.

http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/readtac$ext.ViewTAC?tac_view=5&ti=30&pt=1&ch=285&rl=Y

section3, general requirements - Texas
Quote
(a) Permit required. A person shall hold a permit for an OSSF unless the OSSF meets one of the exceptions in subsection (f) of this section.

ok.  whats in this section "f"?

(f) Exceptions.

Quote
  (1) An owner of an OSSF will not be required to comply with the permitting, operation, and installation requirements of this chapter if the OSSF is not creating a nuisance and:

    (A) the OSSF was installed before September 1, 1989, provided the system has not been altered, and is not in need of repair;

    (B) the OSSF was installed before the effective date of the order, ordinance, or resolution in areas where the local governmental entity had an approved order, ordinance, or resolution dated before September 1, 1989, provided the system has not been altered and is not in need of repair; or

    (C) the owner received authorization to construct from a permitting authority before the effective date of this chapter.
ok, no help there.  For section 1 to apply you basically have to be grandfathered in.  fair enough. 

Quote
  (2) No planning materials, permit, or inspection are required for an OSSF for a single family dwelling located on a tract of land that is ten acres or larger and:

    (A) the OSSF is not causing a nuisance or polluting groundwater;

    (B) all parts of the OSSF are at least 100 feet from the property line;

    (C) the effluent is disposed of on the property; and

    (D) the single family dwelling is the only dwelling located on that tract of land.
Thats the one, my place fits that description as well.  AWESOME!

---
Nathan - as for DIY system with infiltrator setup, here you go.
http://www.eco-nomic.com/septic.htm

I have been looking at it myself for quite a while.  I will be reading it much much closer now that I see I can do it myself entirely. 

Offline phalynx

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Re: 17x24 East Tx Cabin
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2010, 03:43:35 PM »
Muldoon and Nathan, be sure to give a call to your county.  Some counties have permitting requirements and they are allowed to do so from TX law.  My county doesn't inspect or permit for 10ac or larger due to a manpower shortage.  My previous county was extremely strict even with more than 10 acres.  Had to pay a permit of $200 plus they refused to grant any septic type except an aerobic which required quarterly inspections (at $180yr).

The infiltrator system is a piece of cake.  Determine your soil, use their chart to determine the number of panels to buy and just dig a trench wide enough for the panels.  Each panel is 4' long and 2-3' wide.  We required 24 panels for our super sandy soil and # of bathrooms.  We installed a 1000 gallon 2 chamber tank and then ran a pipe to the panels which were set up in a long string.

The rental of a small backhoe can be as cheap as $250 for 8 hours.  That is plenty of time to put one in. 

http://www.infiltratorsystems.com/productline/quick4_infiltrator.asp

I believe we spent about 700 on the panels and 900 on the tank.  It's not as cheap as a leach field but it goes in MUCH faster and no gravel required.  Looking for pictures.

Offline nathan.principe

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Re: 17x24 East Tx Cabin
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2010, 04:00:53 PM »
Thanks Muldoon and Phalynx,  I have navigated the Infiltrater Systems website but have yet to find any type of chart to determine aprox what size tank and how many panels I might need, how did you find that out Phalynx?  Also I cant find a distributer or prices???  I know I am "putting the horse before the carrage" trying to figure this stuff out before I even talk to authority, but I would like to have my ducks in a row when I do. My cabin will have only 1 restroom and occupy 2-4 people one weekend every month.  I cant imagine that requiring a very large system.  Am I crazy for thinking I can get this done for $1000 or less (material costs)

Offline phalynx

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Re: 17x24 East Tx Cabin
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2010, 05:26:36 PM »
You can't do a system that is "compliant" for 1000.  Although I have neighbor that built a mini system out of 2 55 gallon drums and a small leech field.  The chart is on their PDF download which you have to fill out an online form to get access to.  Also, you just call their number and they will tell you who sells around you.  My dealer tried to mark it up to full retail but I had one salesman slip up and say the price for their landscapers so I got it at that price which was about 30% less.

Offline texasgun

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Re: 17x24 East Tx Cabin
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2010, 06:46:23 PM »

  (2) No planning materials, permit, or inspection are required for an OSSF for a single family dwelling located on a tract of land that is ten acres or larger and:

    (A) the OSSF is not causing a nuisance or polluting groundwater;

    (B) all parts of the OSSF are at least 100 feet from the property line;

    (C) the effluent is disposed of on the property; and

    (D) the single family dwelling is the only dwelling located on that tract of land.

This is the same thing my customer (who is a licesened installer) told me he said most people dont know this and the county does not admit to unless you ask. He also told me to install it to spec for our county because if I ever sold it and it was inspected and was not up to min. code it will come back to bite me. I plan on doing my own.
WEST TEXAS