14x24 Little House Project (1.5 story) in Southern New York State

glenn kangiser · April 06, 2008, 01:39:58 AM

Watch kits on solar stuff. Prices sometimes are outrageous.

Cost per watt currently should be about $5 or less plus controllers - etc.

apl.1984 · April 07, 2008, 10:44:44 AM

at my camp ( the nh cabin) we use the honda eu300 generator and its the best one out there ( in our opinion) it cost $1800. but it so quiet you can barley hear it,it has a built in 12v charger so it charges while it running plus its a honda so it last forever and i dont know what kind of power tools your using, we have a small crafsman compressor and the startup draw almost kills it so becare full what your tools draw. and to mix our concrete we also pumped from our brook with a small pump.

here is a link for amount of power you might need http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/genwat.asp
i look foward to seeing your progress thanks

April 07, 2008, 01:40:16 PM

Yep. I love those inverter generators. I have a Yamaha. I like the way they throttle up and down depending on load. Our Yamaha has no trouble starting a Porter Cable pancake compressor or the 13.5K BTU RV A/C and that's at 8800 ft. Not both at the same time mind you.

glenn kangiser · April 07, 2008, 11:28:05 PM

I got this one from Mikey B for my prospecting -- start first pull and is actually a Mitsubishi engine in a B & S Generator -- cast iron sleeve and will start to 3000 watts. Quiet also.

http://www.everygenerator.com/Briggs-and-Stratton-030239-BAS1001.html

pericles · April 08, 2008, 07:08:36 AM

Cost is definitely a factor for us, so I think that $1800 is going to be a little out of our league for temporary power, although I appreciate all the suggestions and notes, and had no idea that I would lose power as we gained altitude. Is that because the density of oxygen decreases, slowing combustion? I did the initial calculations, and I believe the generator we have in mind is capable of powering AND starting any two of our power tools, but with all of your suggestions in mind I will go back and double check - electricity was never my forte, so I'm sure I've confused Amps, Ohms, and Volts.

Bobbie and I signed the final contract on the land yesterday, and sent along an earnest money check. Closing date is still set for April 18th, and it looks like as an added expense we're going to need a NY lawyer present for the closing. It's not a huge fee, in the $600 range, but it's still just plain robbery. We'd like to start clearing land then, if we go up for the closing, in which case I'll post pictures of the cleared area and our stakes. The building department claims they can turn around our plans in a week, so hopefully we'll have piers in not too long after that!

Jack Larkin
jlarkin1@law.villanova.edu

April 08, 2008, 04:43:42 PM

Quote from: pericles on April 08, 2008, 07:08:36 AM
Is that because the density of oxygen decreases, slowing combustion?

The building department claims they can turn around our plans in a week, so hopefully we'll have piers in not too long after that!

The air is less dense so there's less oxygen available, therefore less power. Same happens to our relatives when they come from lower elevations (100 - 750 feet) to visit in NM. (5400 around the suburban home and 8800 in our mountains.)

That's good turn around time on the building dept.

pericles · June 23, 2008, 10:51:38 AM

Sorry for the long absence. The closing was originally scheduled for April 18, but the seller's attorney dropped off the face of the map and we were delayed for three weeks while he looked for new representation. After that there was another hold-up about the subdivision procedure. Finally finally we are proceeding to closing this Friday (we hope) and will camp over the weekend to build an outhouse, rough in a driveway, and generally enjoy the first land we've ever owned.

I'll have pictures on Sunday, but in advance of the start of construction, I had a few more questions for the group:

(1) I noted that the New York building code had an exemption for barns and sheds. I'd like to get out from under the thumb of the code enforcement office – does anyone have experience building in New York State? Can you give me suggestions?

(2) I'm still having trouble with my "flying buttresses" (the bracing that runs from the PT posts to the floor framing). How does the wood need to be cut? Is there a good diagram for that somewhere?

(3) I understand the process when the deck framing is attached directly to the PT posts, but when the deck framing sits in top of the 6x6 beams called for in the Little House plans, what is the connection that holds the frame and floor joists to the 6x6 beams? Again, is there a diagram?

Thanks!

glenn kangiser · June 24, 2008, 12:46:55 AM

In general on the bracing - 45 both ends and make it fit from the bottom of the post to the joist or rim joist or beam as the case may be.

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=1717.msg20480#msg20480

I think AC6Z Simpson is what you are looking for -post to beam for 6x6

I'd toe nail the joist down but there is a Simpson tie strap or maybe hurricane tie that would work also.

Also see John's comment- http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=4113.msg58752#msg58752

pericles · June 25, 2008, 07:44:03 PM

The NEW headache: planning/zoning/code enforcement.

If I want to build a barn or shed, I need to get a variance from the planning board, because they are "ancillary" buildings, and must have a dwelling on the property to be ancillary to. On the other hand if I classify the building as a "dwelling" I need to hook up septic and a well within a year - something that would stretch our budget too far.

This is my first foray into do-it-yourself carpentry, but I'm a lawyer in "real life" so maybe I can make this work. If not, we're going to scale down the plans in order to meet the 144 sq ft loophole and build two or three 10x14s with great big porches. That'll be nice too, give the place sort of a "compound" feel...

Thanks Glenn for the good advice on bracing/brackets. I think I will follow-suit and toe-nail the joists unless I can get a good deal on the hurricane ties.

Wish us luck at the closing/clearing! We're hosting a party of 10 tree-hugging graduate students next 4th of July for a camp out and BBQ, so it's a real sine qua non to get the outhouse dug in time.

-Jack

June 26, 2008, 12:28:02 AM

Come on, Jack. Take on the system. All this ex-post facto law has to be illegal. Check back to the original grant from the state and you should find through chain of title that the county has no interest in the land and in order to stop you they need to purchase it.

I know -- that's not the way it works -- we pretend they have authority over us then when we sign the building permit contract with them we give them jurisdiction over us. We are stupid, eh? Tear them up, please, Jack. hmm

akemt · June 28, 2008, 12:24:54 AM

You know, I'd suggest you try to contact one of the instructors over at www.loghomebuilders.org They aren't in NY, but are very familiar with codes and permits, as well as the legal in's and outs...I think both of the current ones are/were lawyers as well. Or you could just post on the forums there. The two groups of posters are VERY like-minded. Your property doesn't happen to be back in the woods without direct views from the road, does it? If you take certain precautions (being out-of-sight from off the property, fences, constitutional keep-out signs, etc...doesn't work with every property) apparently they cannot get a warrant for code violations. There are also ways to get electric on-site without opening up the whole can of worms. Of course, they always *suggest* building to code and with permitting.

I'm so glad I live where a permit takes two-three pages, $250, and can be approved while you wait! Of course, the septic part (about all they care about here) will be a pain, but nothing comparatively, I'd imagine.

akemt · June 28, 2008, 12:32:47 AM

So your land looks appropriate (seeing the first page with all the pictures of trees), but you'd probably do better getting all the ins and outs from others on the forum I posted above...I don't remember all of it because much of it doesn't apply to me building here.

Best of luck! I HATE the "government knows better" mentality. Whatever happened to survival of the fittest?

glenn kangiser · June 28, 2008, 01:09:19 AM

I'm with you, Catherine.

pericles · August 09, 2008, 03:49:07 PM

So the plans are temporarily on hold. We were defeated the first weekend up by rain and scary animals walking through our camp site. . . we tried to dig a hole for an outhouse, but discovered more monster-sized rocks than you'd imagine. Then, we learned that carrying wood 600 ft to the back of the property is NOT AWESOME. Finally, we discovered that our circular saw was NOT up to the task of 2" dimensional lumber.

We went back, and I built an awesome firepit. . . and subsequently learned that shale explodes when heated. My wife was displeased when she took shrapnel during a camping trip.

We got admittedly discouraged, but are now semi-back on track. . . a local company is leasing the mineral rights to our land and putting a natural gas well on the property. It's paying back most of our education loans, our modest mortgage on the property itself, and enough extra to pay for new tools, and professionals to do some of the prep-work: driveway, well, septic. Then, this fall or next summer, we can come back and get started on the fun part.

More to come as the situation develops.

August 09, 2008, 03:58:15 PM

Sorry to hear of your trials and tribulations. It's especially disheartening when the campfire drops incoming on you.

We'll be looking forward to progress as things permit. We've been through several delays ourselves.

glenn kangiser · August 09, 2008, 10:20:51 PM

I take a little encouragement from this post - not that I don't feel for you , but every time I try to do one thing I have to do six others in preparation for that thing and I generally break a machine of one sort or another doing it ---( main drive chain is now back in the guts of the Bobcat - and my renter just earned half of his rent doing it.)

TheWire · August 12, 2008, 08:26:07 AM

I'm jumping into this a bit late, but in regards to the requirement of installing water and septic within one year of building a dwelling. Do you have an idea of how the county "remembers" to check back in a year to make sure the well and septic are installed? It could be quite likely that they forget about the property after the inspections are done and they are collecting taxes. Also, is that within a year of start or completion of the cabin? Completion could take decades.

glenn kangiser · August 12, 2008, 08:30:18 AM

They are pretty lax about it here - I mentioned finishing to the health inspector once here and he said - aw - no big deal -- as long as it gets done. Depends.

Squirl · August 26, 2008, 01:01:52 PM

I tried to send you a more detailed email. I guess the villanova one is no longer working. I will post some of it for critique.
First the Joists. Do not use 2x lumber. Drive around Philadelphia and look at any house going up. I have not found one that uses 2x lumber for the joists. Go with I-Joists. The money and aggravation you will save will make up for their higher costs. Remember, they can be any length and can carry twice the load as 2x lumber. You can space them twice as far apart and use half the joists. Also their extra height can be used for extra insulation. You also do not have to worry about having the extra foundation. They are also straighter and you do not have to worry about the crown. They also use "scrap" lumber for their construction and are more environmentally friendly. There is a good web page by Ace Hardware with the specs and pricing for this. A good book is "Framing for pros by pros" It can be found at any Home Depot but is also at the central library in Philadelphia.

Squirl · August 26, 2008, 01:08:31 PM

My next topic I wanted to offer suggestions on was the well and septic. In new construction always put the Septic System in first, the well in second. From your post you may be sitting on a giant shale pit. Good luck getting approved. It may be difficult to find a site. It would be a real shame if the the only site they found was were your house was sitting or too close to your house or well. Remember you have a stream on your property too with lots of trees. These are all complications to a septic system. A lot of good information is on the www.inspect-ny.com website. I am not planning on a septic system for my cabin. I expect to use a composting/ grey water system. Remember codes are first to protect people from themselves, second to protect people from each other. Your Realtor either didn't know what he was talking about or wanted to sell you a load of crap to make the sale. Code enforcement has been going up in all of those counties because of environmental concerns. The two codes I am hearing most about in enforcement are Insulation and Septic.

August 26, 2008, 01:46:54 PM

I guess I will continue posting until somebody tells me to shut up. Judging by the GIS portal information you gave, you are probably in Broome County. They are the only county I know of around there that has that much information for free on their portal. Please let me know if I am wrong. I have searched many realtors sites for cabins with decent land in that area. I have found many illegal ones built that aren't even close to code in other counties but none in Broome. This leads me to believe they are more strict in enforcement. But if you are out towards Windsor or Deposit you may not run into the same problems than if you were in bingampton if your neighbors don't complain. Remember you need a well drilled by a certified well driller to get a certificate of occupancy in New York as of this year. I guess this also goes with my last post about the septic.

MountainDon · August 26, 2008, 04:56:23 PM

Quote from: Squirl on August 26, 2008, 01:01:52 PM
First the Joists. Do not use 2x lumber.

That's an opinion. Mine is that for something as narrow, as simple, as a 14 ft wide there is no advantage to going to manufactured joists. For my 16 wide I ordered 2x10 from the yard. I ordered two extras. They delivered. I ended up with one that was crowned significantly more than the others, but most were near beautiful. I used the crowned one as blocking. THe extras will be used in the construction of the battery box.

As for their extra height, that could be a benefit, but also detrimental. That means you need to use the manufacturers rim joist material as well as the manufactured items are not sized the same as dimensional lumber.

As for placing manufactured joists twice as far apart; that has a lot to do with what the subflooring is going to be. 2X at 16" OC does not translate into manufactured joists at 32" OC. Maybe 24.

Manufactured joists have their place, but I feel that small owner built building doesn't require them. OMMV. For structures that are thrown up by a hired work crew the use of manufactured items often saves on on-site labor. That drives the selection of many building materials used by contractors.

As for the manufactured joists being "greener", I'm not sure about that when the total picture, chemicals in the adhesives, etc. are taken into account. Maybe, but that's a topic for discussion.