Global warming--solutions.

[benevolance]

Glenn

Illinois is just setting an example for what is going to be a large industry...No state is under any circumstances going to allow you to make an alternative automobile fuel that will prohibit people from buying their fuels and paying the appropriate taxes.

If you and I drank some beers got out the old drawing board and invented a fuel cell that was so efficient you could fill up with pure water every 1000 miles and a solar panels on the roof would convert the water to hydrogen as you drove...

State and Federal governments would say the device did not meet safety standards....But really they would be saying...If we do not collect fuel tax you are not driving on our highways.

The potential for using waste oils such as frenchfry grease is limited....But Even if 1% of america's diesel needs could be met by recycling waste veggie oil....That represents a massive amount of tax revenue lost by the state and federal governments.

When you consider that we use billions and billions of barrels of oil per year...

The loss in taxable revenue is the only reason in my opinion why there is no true conservation efforts to curb our daily use of crude oil in America... We are using 20 million barrels per day minimum and the need is increasing...  If Conservation reduced it to 15 million barrels a day that is 25% reduction in Tax revenue (assuming the price would stay high.. which it would not as a sharp decline in demand would allow prices of crude and gasoline to drop severly as well)

But back to math....8 billion barrels of crude a year..Say waste veggie oil represented a potential 1% savings in crude consumption (if every drop nationwide was recycled)... that is 80 million barrels of crude...Oil is worth in excess of $60 a barrel...So 5 billion worth of crude oil....

45 gallons of crude per barrel....That is a lot of fuel...Easily a billion gallons...Which sells for $3.00 a gallon...33% of that is taxes...So a billion dollars a year in taxes is at risk from people using waste veggie oil for biodeisel.

This is why the state of IL went after the old couple.

It sucks! but you knew it was coming.... Follow the money Glen.

For the same reason Hydrogen Solar and electric cars will not be given a fair shake for many years....They represent a paradigm shift so great that whole new systems of taxation and revenue generation would have to be created by governments....

They are not going to be willing participants to something like this. The current system is a license for them to print money...We are addicted to oil...Our cars give terrible mileage and the cost of fuel is heavily taxed and very expensive....

Revenues for the feds and each state keep skyrocketing....They know we have to have gasoline...

The IRS has to send agents out after people investigating...Chasing them court battles... to try and collect monies... Gasoline is easy....Just sit back and watch people fill up their cars at the pumps and laugh all the way to the bank.

[benevolance]

BTW

I used easy math numbers back there....the 20+ million barrels a day is accurate and so is the price of oil.... I read a little on the average taxation rate for gasoline in most states and 33% taxes is pretty accurate

Feel free to use other numbers if you have better information I am never going to reach "DON" number status here people

[glenn kangiser]

Current hydrogen technology is another hoax being perpetrated by the oil companies and big auto corporations.  It is a decoy and will not even be feasable the way they are doing it.  They are not going after hydrogen from water either .  They are going after it from fossil fuel.  

The oil companies refuse to let go of their cash cow.

[benevolance]

Glenn

I noticed that several mentions in the media about deriving hydrogen from Coal and Crude oil...

Rather missing the whole point of clean technology

What makes me laugh is the fact that even if we do get to a point where we use clean solar powered water derived hydrogen in our economy....Oil will still be the easiest and cheapest method of fueling for a long time....And it will be even longer before the third world develop the technologies for anything but fossil fuels.

China is the one hope for the world... Right now they are growing 10% a year and they have high levels of pollution...Soon they will start producing as much pollution as the USA

But China has the opposite of the brain drain...Their industries are brimming with over educated workers and technicians...China is looking for ways to save money and get green...They are trying to reduce use of fossil fuels...

Considering that they have 4 times the population of the USA...I take their intentions a little more seriously...As there is no way that they could ever hope to keep going with oil as their main mojo

I truly believe they will be on the cutting edge of green tech and  they will set examples the rest of the world will follow...

Getting green is going to save money and spur economic growth...Using less energy creating less waste and saving money on energy are all good ways to make a lot more money in industry....These are the long term benefits from China going green

The USA is so dependant on oil because their whole economy is set up around it...They got OPEC to make the US dollar the international currency which oil is bought and sold worldwide... Changing that fragile system would devastate the value of the US dollar.

Well that and all the people of power in the USA have vested interests in oil, and coal...etc... a paradogm shift today would mean other people would have access to ways to make money...There would be things in our economy that they did not control or have exclusive control over....And they strongly oppose that.

[benevolance]

As far as hydrogen being a hoax....It depends...

What nobody is talking about right now in America are all the dirty coal plants being built...They are building as many as they can get built...Fearing strict new regulations and they expect all old power stations to be grandfathered in...

If Hydrogen is created with water and electricity it has tremendous potential for greening up the world....If the electricity comes from clean sources such as coal fired plants that recover or limit their carbon emissions...Then the gains for the environment are limitless.

I think the future of coal other than as a clean energy source where we trap and convert most of the carbon so it is not emitted...But Since everyone is on the bio diesel bandwagon.... It is interesting that coal makes very clean pure synthetic diesel that is free of sulphur and particulates...

The Nazi's started to develop this tech...It has been greatly improved upon... And correct me if I am wrong...I do not think they burn the coal or release carbon from it...I think it is pressed to the state where it liquifies....And that is where they get the synthetic diesel from.

I have no idea about the cost of synthetic diesel from coal compared to that of from crude oil....If it was comparable cost wise it would be amazing if they mandated that all diesel in America had to come from green sources...Either recycled veggie oil or synthetic coal based diesel...

Huge gains could be made for the environment....Without changing much at all really...

MR Oil would not like it...But Coal has a lot of powerful people backing it...So maybe the wants of MR Coal could counteract against the Wants of Mr Oil...

:-/

[glenn kangiser]

I not saying that hydrogen as a fuel is a hoax.  It could work but does have problems with metal embrittlement.

I am saying that industry/politicians  trying to make people (sheeple) believe that they are seriously pursuing hydrogen technology is a hoax.  :-/

[glenn kangiser]

Lets all get neutered - it is the PC "Green" thing to do.

BTW - don't exhale that CO2.  :-?

http://www.news.com.au/story/0%2C23599%2C21684156-5009760%2C00.html

[fourx]

...notice, although this is a.""au"" ( Australian) news site, they dont mention the Baby Bonus- ie: the fact that four grand a head goes to the mother of every new little aussie- pump them out, the Government says, while the country falls apart around their little ears, while the water runs out, and crime spirals up into the stratosphere. In most cases it's spent on a plasma TV and more booze and drugs, of course.

[glenn kangiser]

Interesting, Pete.  I could use an extra $40,000.00 or so.  What is their policy toward foreigners? :-?

[benevolance]

I agree that full throttle pursuit of hydrogen is not happening and it is not going to happen any time soon...

Anyone that thinks so needs to buy some ocean front property in Arizona

But Hydrogen can work.... Even if we use it to heat our homes replacing heating oil....

Solar Hydrogen is clean and renewable...If the energy to make it comes from the sun it is truly pollution free... So instead of replacing a dirty fuel for one a little bit less dirty and still releasing all the carbon and being totally dependant upon oil... (as we have done switching fuels from gas, oil, diesel, propane, natural gas....) Hydrogen could replace heating oil in America and there would be 100% reduction in carbon emissions, particulate emission... etc..

I do not think it feasible to think that the gasoline or diesel engine in automobiles will be replaced by anything for at least 20 years...Maybe more... They will bring out smaller cars with less power and they will give 60 miles to the gallon or more from the factory....Which will cut emissions in half and allow people to afford the $6.00 a gallon price tag for gasoline.

But Sulphur and Particulate free Synthetic Diesel from Coal....And bio diesel from recycled veggie oil.... is a way to make serious headway in reducing emissions and cleaning the air we breathe.

We phased out coal as a home heating source in America about 20 years ago...It went the way of the Dodo bird...we could likewise phase out heating oil...Make it more expensive...ban new home construction from installing oil furnaces or natural gas furnaces for that matter....

No reason why electricity cannot become the number one home heating source in America...And for those that want an alternative...Have a clean zero emission source like Hydrogen.... Sure This would increase demand on electricity...But even dirty coal fired plants have some pollution controls and scrubbers on their smoke stacks to catch the particulates.... when joe schmoe fires up the oil furnace the emissions go right out the chimney.... So 100% of the pollutants are put into the atmosphere.

Point being we can make serious gains in cleaning up the air we breathe and reducing carbon emissions without changing much at all.... No pie in the sky...Miracle tech needed to save us... Just a little legislation that makes sense and brings about minor changes in the types of fuels we use and where these fuels come from...

In that way I think Hydrogen has unlimited potential...

I read a newspaper article about a politician out in Wyoming or Montana a few years back who was pushing for all of America's diesel to come from Coal....they have unlimited coal resources out there easy to access strip mines can get it...Cheap quick and easy... would be a major source of energy that would actually clean up America...

It would reduce the amount of oil we import daily..Saving billions..And the diesel would be almost pollution free...Create a lot of jobs here in America too...

It is just a winner all the way around...

[fourx]

...well, with that figure floating around, Glenn, the first thing they would tell you is that you buy your own wheelchair...


...and the second thing they would give you would be the Guinness Book Of Records email address.

[benevolance]

Wow

Spent some time going through US government sties on energy and fuel consumption...and researched the proposals for Syn Diesel plants in Montana

here are some figures

1 ton of coal makes 1.5 barrels of oil....There are 115 billion tonnes of easily accessible coal (strip mines)...So that equates into 172.5 billion barrels of Diesel


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/24/60minutes/main1343604.shtml

http://www.billingsgazette.com/newdex.php?display=rednews/2005/08/02/build/state/25-coal-fuel.inc

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_cons_821dsta_dcu_nus_a.htm

Okay...

America is consuming a little over 4 million barrels of Diesel per day...That includes all home heating, vehicle use, farm use, locomotives, ships, military use...

This equates into 1.5 billion barrels of diesel per year.... So there is enough coal in Montana to supply the USA with diesel for 100 years. (115 actually if you did not have to use coal to generate electricity to make the synthetic diesel etc..)

The problem is cost...

One liquifying plant that would make 150,000 barrels a day would cost 7.5 billion dollars. And America would need 30 of these plants to meet their total Diesel consumption needs. That is 225 billion dollars!!!

The other huge problem is the amount of coal that would have to come out of the ground.... 4 million barrels a day equates to 2.7 million tonnes of coal per day..... In some of the links they are proposing building large mines that will produce 12 million tonnes a year...They would need to build 83 of these mines to supply enough coal to make sure there was enough diesel for america...

America already produces 1.1 billion tonnes of coal per year...Which would be enough coal for diesel...But we would be without electricity and we could not make steel...etc.

So America in essence would have to double the amount of coal they mine each year...And they could in turn make enough synthetic diesel to meet their own needs.

Montana has 24 % of America's coal second to only Wyoming...But New Mexico, The Dakotas are loaded with coal also

Montana is only producing 4% of america's coal currently...So Montana coal is pretty much an untapped resource they shell out 45 million tonnes a year

So if all of Montana's coal that is currently being mined went for Diesel production....America would run out of Diesel each year on January the 17th....

Yes folks 17 days worth of Diesel

So the Montana Governor has his head in the clouds... When he says Montana can end US dependence on Foreign oil.

Not that this is not a great idea....But it is a massive undertaking...It would cost an astronomical amount of money....

The people that own interests in Coal are powerful and they should balance out against the people that have interests in Oil...

It is worth noting that there is a trend currently to stop mining Coal in PA, WV, KY, IL,IN because it is low the low sulphur variety.... Well synthetic diesel solves that problem....

As more mines are developed out in WY,MT,ND, CO of the low sulphur variety....That will allow high sulfur coal to be used for synthetic diesel in the mid west and east

I am still a little skeptical about how they will deal with the carbon..I mean doubling the coal we use will double the carbon we have to deal with from coal...

the Governor in Montana says they will use it to inject into natural gas and oil wells to increase production and revive depleted wells... I remain skeptical

A low cost process needs to be perfected where they combine the Carbon with something else to make a  element that will not contribute to global warming..

For example... combine the Co2 with salt water and desalinize the water and the carbon should be added to the minerals in the salt water and when the water is purified you get pure water and the minerals plus the carbon...

I am not a chemist...I saw a smelter in New Brunswick work a dozen years ago where they  converted the sulphur dioxide coming out of the smoke stack into usable chemicals that they sold and prevented the toxic chemicals from being emitted out the smoke stack...

Not having to buy 4 million barrels of oil a day from the middle east and Venezuela would be a big economic boost to America...

Also there would be record profits from the synthetic diesel...They can produce a gallon of diesel for a buck....They could add  another buck in taxes to make the government happy and still sell it cheaper than the diesel we are buying now...And make a lot of money....

[glenn kangiser]

...well, with that figure floating around, Glenn, the first thing they would tell you is that you buy your own wheelchair...


...and the second thing they would give you would be the Guinness Book Of Records email address.

I put the numbers in there for Don's benefit.  He likes to calculate.

Dang it, Pete.  I'm not that old. :-/

[glenn kangiser]

In todays real world, Peter, successful hydrogen inventors - the ones who do it near free from water, and can prove it, mysteriously die.  

Seems they do better if they take the money and keep their mouth shut. :-/

[Sassy]

Big Oil buys Sacramento
May 16, 2007, Los Angeles Times
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-oe-court14may14,1,7287489.story

Who's afraid of Big Oil? Apparently, California's elected officials. Gasoline prices are stuck well above last year's record highs and about 50 cents above the national average. Yet state politicians are not saying or doing a thing, except for raking in political cash from the oil companies and flying around the world on their dime. Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger ... once claimed that he was so rich he did not need anyone else's money. Yet as gasoline prices were breaking last year's record of $3.38 a gallon, Schwarzenegger collected a $100,000 check May 1 from Chevron, the West's largest refiner. Just three days earlier, it reported a $4.7-billion first-quarter profit, up 18% over the same period last year. The contribution brought Schwarzenegger's take from Chevron to $665,000 (making it his 15th largest donor) since 2003, and his total political tribute from the energy industry is now $4 million. According to a recent Schwarzenegger fundraising solicitation, Chevron's $100,000 buys the company special briefings with the governor. Refiners such as Chevron have discovered that they can make more money by producing less gasoline. So they do. They have, over more than 20 years, deliberately reduced their capacity. Chevron refined 22% less oil in the U.S. during the first quarter of this year than in the same quarter of 2006. Yet its total profit on U.S. refining increased 66%. Making less gasoline, it made much more money. Oil companies poured $90 million into California political campaigns during the 2006 election cycle. This display of sheer political muscle deters even well-meaning politicians from clashing with Big Oil. Democrats take Big Oil's millions too. The state Democratic Party accepted $50,000 from Chevron just last week.
AAA wants gas-price inquiry

May 16, 2007, The San Francisco Chronicle (San Francisco's leading newspaper)
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/05/16/BUGVAPRFRQ1.DTL

AAA asked the U.S. Senate Tuesday to investigate why oil companies are making huge profits at a time when glitches at gas refineries have caused pump prices to soar. "We are concerned about the number and frequency of refinery outages this year in light of the large profits the industry has been reporting," AAA Public Affairs Director Geoff Sundstrom told the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources. "AAA doesn't know why refiners appear to be failing at this task, but we do think it would be worth the committee's time and trouble to find out." Sundstrom spoke at a Senate hearing at which lawmakers asked energy experts to explain the spell of unplanned refinery shutdowns that have thrown gas supplies into disarray from coast to coast, boosting average pump prices to a record $3.09 per gallon in the United States. California Energy Commission spokesman Bob Aldrich said his agency does not investigate the industry but does track its practices. This year the big story was a series of glitches in the annual switchover from winter gas to a differently formulated summer gas. Tom Kloza, publisher of the Oil Price Information Service ... said the surprise this year was that refineries outside California also had unplanned problems with their normal spring maintenance. "I did not think we'd see the same downtime elsewhere in the country," he said. Sean Comey, spokesman for AAA of Northern California, said the gas refining business is unusual because it seems that even when production goes down, prices and profits go up. "When most industries have production problems, profits suffer as a result," he said.

[benevolance]

Glenn

I guess the only way for this type of tech to make it is to publish it free on the web... Sure the guy that invented it gets nothing...But...The world benefits from it and he does not go missing or get poisoned...

[Sassy]

Benevolance, there's a bill before Congress to allow hemp to be grown...
Dr. Ron Paul's Truth Prescriptions http://www.ronpaul08.blog-city.com/
By: Rand Clifford
Another cheer for Congressman Ron Paul! Anyone frothing up hate-radio reptiles into virtually shedding their skins has to be doing something right. Dr. Paul is doing many things right, after breaking the political paradigm of parroting bullshit, by introducing truth. His latest truth blast was point-blank into the face of Rudy Giuliani at the South Carolina GOP Presidential Primary "debate", a place where it seems truth and meaning are anathema. Dr. Paul revealed American foreign policy as the root cause of hatred and terrorism against the United States. Giuliani must've felt like a quail-slaughtering partner of Cheney's—though slippery politician that Giuliani is, heat in his feet raced up under his collar and he declared that he had never heard such a theory in his life! He even asked Paul to retract it; in the grips of honesty, Dr. Paul not only refused, but pointed out the CIA's seasoned theory of blowback. Has Giuliani never imagined that if you punch someone in the face, they might punch you back? He parroted the pathetic illusion that our freedom and democracy is what drives terrorists bonkers, along with our freedom for women, and freedom of religion. If the GOPers don't succeed in banning Dr. Paul and his tin-foil hat from future "debates", don't be surprised to see marijuana cited as the reason for his lunacy.

Dr. Paul is the chief sponsor of H.R. 1009, the "Industrial Hemp Farming Act of 2007". All nine original co-sponsors are Democrats, Representatives: Jim McDermott (WA), Tammy Baldwin (WI), Raul Grijalva (AZ), Pete Stark, George Miller and Lynn Woolsey (CA), Dennis Kucinich (OH), Barney Frank (MA), Maurice Hinchey (NY). Dr. Paul insists: "It is indefensible the United States government prevents American farmers from growing this crop. The prohibition subsidizes farmers in countries from Canada to Romania by eliminating American competition and encourages jobs in industries such as food, auto parts and clothing that utilize industrial hemp to be located oversea instead of in the United States. By passing the Industrial Hemp Farming Act the House of Representatives can help American farmers and reduce the trade deficit—all without spending a single taxpayer dollar."

Health Canada confirmed that 48,060 acres of hemp were grown in 2006, with farmers reporting it as one of the most profitable crops they can grow. In the U.S., the National Conference of State Legislatures have passed a pro-hemp resolution. The National Association of State Departments of Agriculture support commercial production of industrial hemp. Fifteen states so far have passed pro-hemp legislation. So why are American farmers still prohibited from growing the world's most valuable and versatile natural resource? The reason is a classic example of how power in America works against The People.

February, 1938, Popular Mechanics magazine's cover story was called New Billion-Dollar Crop. The article was about hemp, and the invention of a machine which they said, "solves a problem 6,000 years old." Called a decorticator, the machine removes the fiber-bearing cortex from the hemp stalk, greatly reducing the human labor involved. Imports of raw hemp and manufactured hemp products produced by "coolie and peasant labor" would be replaced with domestic hemp, providing thousands of new American jobs. The article's huge error was in claiming that hemp would not compete with other American products. Such competition had already killed domestic hemp the year before the article was published, blindsiding our hemp industry with an illegal tax law ostensibly targeting "the killer weed from Mexico".

William Randolph Hearst and Pierre du Pont were the two power brokers most responsible. Hearst leveled cross-hairs on hemp after 1916, when the U.S. Department of Agriculture invented a process for making paper from hemp hurds—the pulp leftover after fiber stripping. Hearst owned vast timber acreage, and his paper manufacturing companies such as Kimberly Clark and St. Regis stood to loose billions in profits to superior and eco-friendly hemp paper. So with his chain of newspapers, Hearst declared war on hemp by first conjuring it into marijuana, killer weed from Mexico. Hearst's lurid ooze of yellow journalism prodded marijuana hysteria into gullible Americans for twenty years—marijuana was the most dangerous drug ever vomited from Hell by Satan himself, the most pernicious threat to civilization imaginable! Du Pont's role...by 1937 he not only had patents on the horribly-polluting sulfuric acid process for making paper from wood pulp, along with patents to make plastics from oil and coal, but DuPont's array of petrochemical synthetic products including rayon, nylon and polyester were set to make billions, as long as competition from superior, natural hemp products could be eliminated.

Industrial hemp is not marijuana, having such low amounts of the THC which puts the high in marijuana. Nevertheless, in 1937, Congress passed the prohibitive and illegal (taxes are meant raise revenue, not prohibit behaviors) Marijuana Tax Act. The entire Congressional process was almost as lurid as ooze from Hearst's yellow journalism—in fact, "testimony" was dominated by Hearst's very own marijuana hysteria. Andrew Mellon, owner of Mellon Bank, one of only two banks (con't at above link)

[MountainDon]

George Washington grew hemp.

http://www.populistamerica.com/liberty_whiskey_and_hemp

http://www.cafepress.com/buy/washington/-/pv_design_prod/p_storeid.18566996/pNo_18566996/id_6579818/opt_/pg_/c_/fpt_   no I don't think George was a stoner.

[Sassy]

We have some rather simple, cost effective solutions - even in building vehicles, but it doesn't bring in the money to the corporate interests or take money out of our pockets "taxes" to keep us madly working, making a living to survive...  :-/

Interesting history on Washington  

[benevolance]

Hemp is a great crop...As long as they do not grow the stoner kind of hemp... It has all kinds of uses...Rope, Paper, Clothing... Should be very profitable

[Leo]

it makes a nice fabric.,In 1987 John Gardener wrote a scolding letter in national fisherman magazine on hull shapes were wrong and oil was gonna do what its doing he got it right..He was curator mystic seaport wrote numerous books on the old designs with good plans.turn of the last century they had low power engines and went to hull shape to get maximum speed long length to beam they were able at a good speed on low power.a electric boat with hull designed for it is now practical in most situations and the silence great.,gas guzzlers will become more and more  expensive and it will go full circle..aqcross from the cabin is dual and even triple big block speed goats barreling along and house boats 85 feet tby 18 feet wide two have heli pads?gas at the dock is 4$ and will go up ..it has 1250 miles of shore line and the damns leaking water has been dropped for repairs 3 company's build houseboats,the local economy thrives on the summer people.another 1973 oil squeeze will turn them into dinosaurs..mr Gardener passed away at 92 will prove correct .

[Sassy]

CAP & TRADE MONEY MARKET SCHEMES & CARBON TAXES
excerpt:
"When Gore was Vice-President where was his drive to have the EPA accomplish so many more goals in this country to reduce pollution and improve public health?
Gore, however, is apparently not advocating that we work within the framework of the EPA, with their offices in every State, to once again make this an agency work toward reducing harmful pollutants. And Gore has not allegedly challenged the Bush Administration who has closed almost all, if not all, of the EPA's libraries built with taxpayer funding. The silence has been deafening as the Bush Administration made political appointments to the EPA, who then proceeded to edit and censor official scientific assessments and studies, while making massive budget cuts. And the silence has continued for years giving a pass to the Bush Administration as they made changes to EPA regulations which are now allowing polluters to pollute more in the United States, thus reversing years of progress.

And why wasn't Gore out in public, speaking, and working toward pollution reduction during the eight years he was Vice-President of the United States? Now he is almost completely ignoring the EPA in order to promote a money market scheme, which he calls "The Carbon Exchange Market." He expects that everyone, including large, special interest corporations, will automatically pledge to reduce emissions and that these emissions will be automatically "...converted into tradable credits...If participants reduce their emissions below their target, they can sell their carbon credits on the exchange for a profit...if they fail to reduce their emissions, they must buy credits from others..." Why aren't their calls for rules, regulations, and penalties for non-performance instead?

Thus, it appears that Gore and other corporations intend to make money through this type of investment scheme. There is just one problem. This scheme appears to globalize pollution through trading, buying, and selling. The end result is that polluters will continue to pollute and buy from a long list of those who have real or fake pollution credits to sell. It is a great idea for those special corporate interests that established this money making market scheme because they will make fantastic profits...but it does not regulate or reduce the pollution that is responsible for climate change and the polluting of our air, rivers, and streams. And it will not make a significant reduction in the pollutants that are causing declining human health, a rise in childhood asthma, and other respiratory problems."

[MountainDon]

"The mud at the bottom of B.C. fjords reveals that solar output drives climate change - and that we should prepare now for dangerous global cooling"

:-/ :-/

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/comment/story.html?id=597d0677-2a05-47b4-b34f-b84068db11f4&p=4

[glenn kangiser]

Great, Don. :-/  I just put on my Speedo's and now it's time to pull out the goose down comforter.

[benevolance]

dunno what that meant glenn

too much info with the speedos man

Sassy; If this new trade scheme can lower emissions I am all for it. For a while large corporations will have a way to keep polluting... but you see countries that do not pollute will sell their emission credits and it will fuel economic development...And companies that are green will sell their emission credits...And to that end it will be funding and pushing low emission business and green technology.

As the credits get more expensive it will become prudent for companies and countries to push for green tech because there will not be enough credits to buy and they will become too expensive.

by getting them to agree to minitor their emissions and work in a defined system we are starting the world to really working towards reduction

Bush would never agree to widespread cuts in emissions...Mr Oil will never allow that

The rest of the world cannot just cut their emissions in half while the USA just keeps on polluting...So even if the credit system is flawed...it at least gets the entire world into some sort of agreement.

It was great that some of the western states here in America held conferences with the mayors and govenors and they all talked about things they can do to reduce pollution...They initiated some economic reforms and proposed cuts for the future in emissions.... But in the scope of the whole usa and meaningful long term green tech and emission reductions it is a small stone thrown in a big pond

More must be done