Author Topic: Property Comments -from Mtn Mikes thread  (Read 5088 times)

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  • Guest
Property Comments -from Mtn Mikes thread
« on: June 28, 2006, 02:55:00 PM »
Hi, I spent the day viewing this forum and was very very impressed with what I saw and heard.  

I hope y'all don't mind but had this massive need to jump right in with both feet after reading this thread.  I'll make another post to tell about myself.  

I am of like mind when it comes to the G-Men, they don't belong on our property or in our private lives.  I hope I don't offend anyone and with all due respect, I have to make a correction on something that Glenn said...

3.  because I feel it is my right and that agencies created in violation of rights given to us by our founding fathers do not have the right to stop an owner builder from building what he wants for himself.

The correction is, the founding fathers didn't give us the Bill of Rights, those are God given rights, the founding fathers just signed, sealed and delivered them.   :)

« Last Edit: June 28, 2006, 06:54:49 PM by glenn-k »


  • Guest
Re: Pics of my remote  retreat & underground shel
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2006, 02:56:53 PM »
Mike, this is for you........

The land belongs to you, the one who bought it, not the State. A property tax is the State declaring that it owns the land, and worse than that, it is the state attempting to usurp your God given right to do what you want with your own land, by saying it owns the land. If you doubt this, just try not paying your property tax and you’ll see who owns the land. Imagine this. Imagine an America in which there are no homeowners, just serfs. No one owns a home or land. They simply pay a feudal lord a special fee in order to remain on the land or in their home. They must maintain the land and home they live in or the feudal lord can fine, imprison or evict them.
They must obtain permission from the feudal lord to build onto their home or make significant improvements. Once they have built or improved their home, they must pay the feudal lord an increased special fee in order to remain in their home. The feudal lord can also send his agents to inspect the home whenever he wishes and the "homeowner", oh pardon me, the serf must grant them entry. This arrangement is known as serfdom. They say it ended in the 1700’s. But it has not ended. In America, we have simply replaced the feudal lord with the State. Serfdom is alive and well in America and it is maintained via the property tax.

The property tax dispossesses and disinherits the family. Land, in a truly free nation would be an inheritance to future generations of family members. A tax on the land is an attempt by the state to defund, dispossess, and disinherit the family. Families that cannot afford the tax will lose their land. Supreme Court Chief justice John Marshall, penned these words in the 1819 McCulloch v. Maryland case, "The power to tax is the power to destroy." A property tax is an attempt by the State to destroy the family.

God intended for families to own land. He intended the land to be an inheritance to future members of the family. Any laws which the State enacts to see this end accomplished are just laws, any laws which militate against this God-given design are unjust laws. The land owned by families must not be taxed by the State, lest they rob future family members of their God-given inheritance. The property tax is not only an assault upon the family, but it is also an assault upon man’s freedom. Property is basic to man’s freedom. A tyrannical state always limits a man’s use of his property. A tyrannical state always limits a man’s use of his property, taxes it, or confiscates it as a means of enslaving a man without necessarily touching his person. A property tax is a sign of an occupied country!

A direct property tax is a sign that a nation is under oppression and tyranny. That is what Americans are under today. In contrast, a familiar cry of the American Revolution was "Liberty and Property." Property tax is also wrong because of what it is used for.

Property tax is collected by city governments, municipalities or various local governments. A small portion is given to the state government. A small portion is given to the county government. The vast majority is kept by the local government. It’s hard to determine what the state uses its portion for. The county government usually uses a large portion of the small portion it receives for jails and prisons. The local government uses the vast majority of what it keeps for schools. This is another corrupt institution. The State must never be granted jurisdiction to educate children. This duty should belong to the family primarily. What does the State educate children in? Humanism, statism, and it does not encourage children to think independently, rather brainwashes children not to think for themselves, and accept lies as truth, as long as it's from a state approved authority figure. Property tax is wrong because it removes incentive to improve one’s property. If you improve your property, it means you will pay a higher property tax because you have increased the value of your property. Therefore, property tax acts as a disincentive to improve the condition of one’s property.

Property tax is an attempt to destroy the family, and an assault on man’s freedom. We must be opposed to it therefore. One of the reasons Americans are under the oppressive property tax is because we are a nation of citizens in rebellion to common sense, and so many of us are dependant on a monthly check from Big Brother to survive. The attitude of the State regarding the taxation of its citizens can be summed up in the words of former U.S. President Lyndon Johnson. In a January 15, 1964 White House speech, LBJ, who gave us the Great Socialist Society, said, "We are going to try to take all the money that we think is unnecessarily being spent and take it from the ‘haves’ and give it to the ‘have-nots’ that need it so much." Apparently the have nots include a State that is getting rich by the sweat of our brows, and imposing more tyranical laws upon us every day.

continued in next post


  • Guest
Re: Pics of my remote  retreat & underground shel
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2006, 02:58:00 PM »
What should we do in light of this tyranny? Am I saying you should not pay your property tax? That's up to you to decide. If you can find a way around it, FIND IT! Be as wise as a serpant, and harmless as a dove, so to speak. It may be a cause for which God will raise you up. But what we must do is inform this nation of the injustices that are being heaped upon us daily, and the property tax is one of them. The BIG picture is this: we are cows, the IRS is company who milks the cows, the United States Government is the veterinarian who takes care of the herd, and the International Bankers are the owners of the farm.
The peoples of this nation should be aflame with righteousness calling each other to stand against this tyranny. All people must know it is wrong, and then they will see this scourge called property tax abolished from our land.



  • Guest
Re: Pics of my remote  retreat & underground shel
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2006, 05:25:32 PM »
Just to remind everyone that the proper forum for complaints about government, expressing political views and such is in the "Off Topic" forum. Talking about why you can't do something may be interesting but the main forum pages are best served with discussions about the actual doing... in the physical sense.  ;)

Don't let your opinions of others keep you from doing what needs to be done. My advice is to move ahead and take responsible action - taking into account your neighbors and the environment. If you are not doing harm to them who is going to complain?

Somebody pretty smart once said "It is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission"

And... when you do act responsibly... and not out of anger or self-righteousness, you can expect most of the people you deal with to be human beans just like you are. Usually they will live up to that expectation. Sometimes, even when the rules say something different.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2006, 05:46:42 PM by jraabe »


  • Guest
Re: Property Comments -from Mtn Mikes thread
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2006, 07:01:20 PM »
Hi Sparrow --- Welcome to the forum -- Thought I'd move this here as we are into another topic inspired by the mountain Mike thread.

Like you, I have some problems with other unjust taxes.  The tax on my tools - also a property.  I see no legal reason that I should have to pay a near 8 percent sales tax on my tools and equipment then have to fork out more money every year on the tools I make a living with.  If I don't pay it they will lein it and try to steal it from me.  That is extortion.  Makes me want to be a welfare recipient just like our "PUBLIC SERVANTS". :-/


  • Guest
Re: Property Comments -from Mtn Mikes thread
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2006, 10:41:15 PM »
Well, I am glad I was able to see this thread.   I am back in the stinkin city - Greeley, Colorado to get another - last load on my large Ford F-250 truck.   I have to sell it this fall for it is a gas guzzler.     I am going back to my land on Saturday and must stay maybe until November or so.      I Might be able to read posts and emails If I went to the Encampment, Wyoming library - they have a nice little library for a town of 500 people.

About property taxes is that I agree with all that Sparrow, Glenn and a Few others have said.     One thing I have to add is that I have read that the Communist Manifesto is very pro tax.    One or two of the planks in the Communist Manifesto are about taxes such as a progressive income tax etc. is necessary.     Could it be the USA is more communist, more big government etc. and Not as free as people think??   It is pretty interesting to look up Communist Manifesto and other things on a search engine.

I have asked at least ten times over the past five years in various groups and forums if it is right that the government can take property that may be worth many thousands of dollars simply for not paying a few hundred dollars in property taxes.     Sparrow pretty well answered and No one else over the past five years has ever commented or answered me about property taxes.   Most people either do not understand, are afraid to answer or just dont care....

I do not want to say too much and maybe have said too much sometimes.    After all we are not Free to say anything and everything we would Like to say are we???  

I just want to say that I hope to Never lose my remote mountain land and survival retreat.     That is One more reason I have an underground shelter-bunker.     By the way there were extremely heavy snows on my land and in much of the Rocky Mountains this past winter.     My A-frame shed survived another year since I built it in 1990 although it has moved about six inches from the heavy snows.     The worst thing is that when I went up and saw my land and buildings the past few days is that I saw that the camper trailer I took up last summer is fairly crushed from the heavy snows.    Most of the roof mainly.     I tried to build a strong roof over it but it is too large an area to cover and I just did not have enough time, money etc. to build a good enough roof over it.    At least the trailer only cost a little over $300.     I dont think I am supposed to have a trailer or anything too nice.  Without the trailer I am back to living in tents which are not too bad and are real close to nature....    And I Must concentrate on making my underground bunker - shelter nicer and stronger and be able to keep out mice, voles, pikas and a porcupine who has taken over my underground shelter.     I dont mind the porcupine except he has slimed and stank up the shelter.     The pika has put a Lot of dried plants on shelves and around my underground shelter also.  

Well, sorry if this is too long.    I could say a Lot more also.     Maybe next winter.    So If I do not post in the next couple days then I will try to post next winter after I come back from my land.    

Again as I have said that the wilderness and most of the mountains that are not developed yet are like paradise and cities are the opposite.    Another quote I have liked is "Why would anyone want to live in most of the places where most people actually do live??"    :o :-/ :) :)


  • Guest
Re: Property Comments -from Mtn Mikes thread
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2006, 04:21:53 AM »
Glad you made it back for a posting, Mike.

Interesting that my friend, Al and I always refer to going down to the city by saying "Well, I've gotta go down to Hell tomorrow."  Have for several years now.  I think I started it if I remember correctly.  

Every time I see a train go by with graffiti all over it or see a city crew painting over the thousands of dollars of damage done daily by graffiti taggers I think we are doing the wrong thing by taking guns away from them.  I think we should give them more guns.  They usually only shoot each other.


  • Guest
Re: Property Comments -from Mtn Mikes thread
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2006, 04:40:10 AM »
Mike, sorry to hear of your setbacks, fortunately you experienced them now while you still have time to fix them instead of when you will REALLY need them.

Could it be the USA is more communist, more big government etc. and Not as free as people think??   It is pretty interesting to look up Communist Manifesto and other things on a search engine.

Be carefuly, they might start thinking that YOU'RE the communist. ;) After all, how dare you educate yourself, for educated people have a tendency to rebel.  That explains Bush's philosophy, let's keep them stupid and confused and we can do whatever we want.

When it comes to property tax, most people know they are bad but don't realize they are UnConstitutional and in direct violation of our right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness and our right To be secure in our home, free from threats and intimidation from the fedcorp gestapo. I have been holding on to the No Tresspassing poster, (I believe it was Glenn who posted it on another thread) for a few years, waiting for the right opportunity to use it and I think that opportunity has arrived.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
--William Pitt (1759-1806)
« Last Edit: June 29, 2006, 04:42:03 AM by Sparrow »


  • Guest
Re: Property Comments -from Mtn Mikes thread
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2006, 05:18:00 AM »
Yep - that was me --posted along my road and a copy on a post on the wall so that when they show up I can take a quick digital picture of them reading it. ;D

It's in the Underground Cabin update and another place ot two I think.

Well -I'm late for work now-  but I still hold on to the freedom to be late--


  • Guest
Re: Property Comments -from Mtn Mikes thread
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2006, 07:10:29 AM »
Actually, Mike and the rest, I'd love to be able to walk to a coffee shop, the movies, a bookstore and a grocery store.

Where I live now an intentional community "only" 10 miles away has a weekly potluck dinner for themselves and others in the area who tend to feel a bit isolated during the week.  That does help.  

But for years my support group was at a coffee and doughnuts shop that attracted a really wide variety of people.  Might love some and hate others, but their insights were valuable any time I needed to bounce an idea or situation off some real people.

One guy broke into tears when he heard I'd been fired from a job--NOT because I'd been fired but because he worked starting two days after college graduation for his dad's insurance company which later became his own.  No way could he go explore different options.


  • Guest
Re: Property Comments -from Mtn Mikes thread
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2006, 07:18:21 AM »
No way could he go explore different options.

That's sad, not because he got stuck but because he allowed himself to be shackled to a pretend existence and will live unhappily ever after because he doesn't have what it takes to free himself from those shackles.  On the other hand, I really have no sympathy for anyone that is involved in the insurance racket or for anyone who doesn't use their "free" will to explore other options.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2006, 07:20:06 AM by Sparrow »


  • Guest
Re: Property Comments -from Mtn Mikes thread
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2006, 08:15:46 AM »
This was posted elsewhere, but think it is appropriate to post again... the We The People organization are having rallys across the nation this summer, starting in the East July 1.  I've volunteered to help with the one in Fresno, August 1st.  Get the message out & please go to their site & read what WTP is all about.  If we don't speak up for our rights, we will no longer have any rights.  :'(
Re: Thought For the Day
Reply #34 - May 29th, 2006, 11:40am  
Isn't this what our servicemen are fighting for?
WTP Forcing Numerous High Courts to Grapple With The Meaning of The Petition Clause  
Truth: the People are "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights."  
Truth: The People instituted government "to secure these Rights," no more or less
Truth: The People instituted written constitutions to prohibit government from doing more or less.
Truth: The People have a Right to hold government accountable to these written constitutions.
Truth: The People have a "Right to Petition the government for Redress" of constitutional torts.
Truth: The People have a Right of Response from government to these Petitions for Redress.
Truth: The People have a Right to "alter the government" when it fails to respond to such Petitions.
Truth: The People have a Right of Enforcement of their Rights.
Truth: The People have a Right to retain their money until their grievances are Redressed.  
The truths etched above form nothing less than the cornerstone upon which our form of governance exists and which distinguish it from every other form of government ever designed by man.  Indeed, it is solely through these Founding Principles that men can peacefully enjoy their natural dominion over servant governments and keep safe the blessings of Liberty.    
No less than the United States Supreme Court and three federal Appeals Courts are now grappling with these fundamental truths in four separate cases initiated by Bob Schulz and the We The People Foundation.
BTW, the Supreme Court refused to hold the hearing as scheduled...
« Last Edit: June 29, 2006, 08:16:43 AM by Sassy »


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