Bullets - Shells - Ammo - Reloading

[NM_Shooter]

That's better than a decent group.  Nice shooting!

Okay... do this.  And be very, very careful about it.

Put a full magazine in the gun. 

Chamber your first round, and shoot, check accuracy of hit.  Remove the magazine.  Extract the bullet from the chamber.  Examine the bullet carefully for signs of deformation.

If it looks good, hand chamber that round.  Re-insert magazine, fire round. Check accuracy of hit.

Continue doing this.  If you see a round that is gouged, make note of it's position in the magazine. 

Do this through several magazines.  If the bullet gets knackered up from the same location in the magazine, you have a magazine issue. 

If the bullet gets knackered up in different order from your magazine, you have a feed issue. 

Any chance you can look at your brass?  See if any of the brass looks different after firing.  Look for bulges, or bases that are slightly tipped over.

Some other thoughts about shooting a .45acp...

Just curious.. after you load the magazine, do you tap the back of the magazine to make sure that all rounds are fully rear-ward?

Make sure that you don't limp wrist the thing.  I had a Para-Ordinance that would stove pipe on me if I held it gentle. 

A fairly cheap thing to try is to get a beefier slide spring.  Since it sounds as though you are currently having no feed problems, I would use a heftier spring.  This might have the benefit of keeping the barrel bushing tighter too. 

Pretty weird!  But you are making progress in the debug. 

Once you get it figured out, practice, practice, practice.

I've seen a lot of lucky shots.  Oddly, they occur most often to my buddies who practice the most!

-f-

[peternap]

Looks like NM took you through the next step. The brass is important so try to collect a few.
What I'm getting at is the one single problem that comes up with those guns, are feeding problems caused bt a combination of magazine feed lips and a too stiff spring.

I'm betting your chamber has been polished oversize to compensate and the cartridges are feeding, but hitting the chamber hard enough to actuality cant the bullet. Rare in a 45 but it does happen.

That is the only thing that would account for the uneven rifling. If that is the case, you'll have to either sleeve and rechamber the chamber or buy another barrel. Buying a barrel is the best option....but let's see what's happening first.

BTW, a deformed bullet would NOT account for the uneven rifling marks.

[Whitlock]

I have a feed issue never thought I would be happy about that
There was a small burr on the right edge of the ramp.It looks like it was left over from the machining.I could not see it until I did like you said.
Two of the bullets that I looked at after they had entered the barrel had a deep gouge cut into the lead.
I took the gun apart and buffed the ramp until the burr was gone.
I guess that the bullets that came in contact with the burr were flying wild

Ran two clips though and no zingers
Is this possibly the cause or did i get lucky?


Thanks all for your help,W

[MountainDon]

Anyone reload shotshells??  Peter?

I hardly ever toss any hulls into the trash. I counted up my stash today. I've got a little over 200 - 2 3/4" mostly Federal, some Winchester, all used one time, plus 80 mostly Winchester 3". I wonder what's involved in reloading them, how does one seal the end, is it worth it? Probably is if handgun and long gun rounds are any indication.

[glenn kangiser]

My buddy talks about reloading shot shells but he's not on the forum.

Continuing to build our stock of shells before the ban. 

[MountainDon]

Another question. Does anyone "waterproof" their ammo by applying a lacquer (or whatever) around the primer/case joint and the bullet/case joint? Would that be a good idea or be problematic?

[MountainDon]

Continuing to build our stock of shells ...

I have never seen the shelves of some of our gun shops so bereft of ammunition. I was in Sportsmans Warehouse today. The only type of 45 caliber ammo they had were a couple boxes of .45 Schofield. Nary a LC, ACP or GAP to be seen.   

[glenn kangiser]

Sassy said the Wal-mart was out of 30.06 except the expensive stuff.  550 .22 Federal $13.97 - was $12.97 last week.

I think I'll shoot for about 10k of them.

[NM_Shooter]

I reload shotshells too Don (go figure).  I have  a MEC reloader, and once it is up and running I can reload a box of shells in about 2 minutes easy. 

The shot is crazy expensive though... $45 a sack, which is so far over the commodity price of lead it is obscene. 

It can be a little tricky to get the loader set up, as depending on the hull and wad type you have to tweak the loader to get it to seat and crimp correctly.  But once you are running you can really spit them out.

If you are  not going to shoot competitively, you just can't save enough $$$ to make it worth the trouble.  Back when lead was $20 a bag you could save some serious $$$ but not anymore. 

[Whitlock]

Don if you don't mind I would like to add something here

If I wanted to start reloading 30-06 and 45 acp.
What powder should I buy?
What equipment do I need?What is a good brand?
Can I make my own bullets Or do they have to be copper jacketed?

Sorry for so many questions at once,W

[peternap]

I load shotshells also Don and I agree with NMS all the way. Considering Walmart prices, it just doesn't pay...unless you make your own swan shot and that won't feed in most charge bars.

I also have a MEC and consider it tops for the average loader. I have an old Herters that is the MEC as far as I can tell. All parts interchange between the two. I also have two Lee loadalls. They work but that's about all I can say about them.

I have waterproofed cartridges in the past (If your talking about rifle or pistol) Asphalt sealant around the case mouth and lacquer around the primer.  

[peternap]

If I wanted to start reloading 30-06 and 45 acp.
What powder should I buy?
What equipment do I need?What is a good brand?
Can I make my own bullets Or do they have to be copper jacketed?

Sorry for so many questions at once,W

There are a lot of ways to start Whitlock, but I'd recommend you buy quality right out of the gate. That way you don't have to go back and do it over. I'd recommend an RCBS Rockchucker press. You can use Lee dies or RCBS. The Lee are considerably cheaper. The Rockchucker is more press than you need but leaves you the oppurtunity to swage etc.

The powder depends on the caliber and bullet. Get the latest Speer manual.

Yes you can make your own bullets, either cast or swaged with or without jackets.

[Whitlock]

I use 165 grain 30-06,185grain and 230grain 45 acp
I'm sure you guys have your favorites if you don't mind sharing.


Thanks,W

[MountainDon]

... Considering Walmart prices, it just doesn't pay...

Yep. I cleaned out my closest local WM today; Winchester and Remington; 25 - rifled slugs, 30 - 00 Buck, 50 - #4.  I was sorely tempted by a case of 250  birdshot, for $55. That made me wonder about the viability of reloading.

I'll keep saving the hulls; maybe make some Christmas lights.  

[MountainDon]

What's on hand and more or less usual...

45 LC   Buffalo Bore 255 gr, semi WC
          Cor-Bon 200 gr self defense JHP
          Black Hills cowboy 250 gr RNFP

30-30  Federal Power Shok 125 & 150 gr RNSP

45-70  Federal Power Shok 300 gr Speer SP

12 ga  Federal Power Shok 2 3/4" magnum 00 & 3" magnum 00
         Federal Power Shok 2 3/4" 1 oz or 1 1/4 oz rifled slug
         Federal Power Shok 3" 1 1/4 oz rifled slug
         Federal Premium Wing Shot 2 3/4" 1 3/8 max #4

[NM_Shooter]

I do concede that if you want to load some specialty stuff... like #4 buckshot or larger, it might be cheaper to load if you are going to need a bunch of it to sell or trade.  Good thing about the store bought buckshot is that it has been assembled with buffer material too, and is probably hotter than I would want to load my own.

Whitlock, I agree with Peter... get a decent press.  Watch Craigslist sporting as they pop up on there all the time, and they just don't wear out.  Get a good scale or never approach maximum loads with volume type "Lee" dippers.  At a bare minimum you need the dies, case lube, press, priming tool, caseholder, calipers, and something to measure the powder with.  Be careful with overall length.  It can be dangerous if you seat too deep, or dangerous if you don't seat deep enough.

If you are firing mil surplus ammo, make sure that it is Boxer primers.  If Berdan (two tiny holes in primer pocket) throw it away.

Stuff you ought to also consider:
neck chamfering tool
If mil surplus brass you'll need to swage or ream the primer pocket
headspace gauge (only if you are going to be re-using the brass a lot)

For 30-06 I like 4350 as a powder. 

-f-

[Whitlock]

Are all these guns on the chopping block
Look at sec.6


http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-6257

[apaknad]

scary, isn't it?

[MountainDon]

I have not waded through that to research what Sec.6 is all about, but...

The bill is called "assault weapons ban"

Sec.6 appears to me to possibly be a list of permitted arms. Look at it; it includes things like bolt action single shot rifles and shotguns in calibers as small as .22 as well as rifles that are clearly classed as competition rifles. These are items I've never seen listed as assault weapons. I could be wrong; this could be one of those neffarious addendum things that ride along on the coattails.

I'm going to look further into this but I don't think this is the draconian "total firearms ban" bill that would be the greatest fear.

[NM_Shooter]

Section 6 is excluded from the bill:

" Paragraph (1) shall not apply to--

      '(A) any of the firearms, or replicas or duplicates of the firearms, specified in appendix A to this section, as such firearms were manufactured on October 1, 1993;"

But any movement provided on this bill is movement in the wrong direction.

Get ready for four years of this.

-f-

[Whitlock]

Why even list guns that are not to be ban

[MountainDon]

That is hard to understand, but so are a lot of government things. The section 922, title 18 that the sec.6 list refers to is all about penalties for firearms use/misuse. You need a legal degree to understand what it is saying.

It would be interesting to learn just what and why that listing is meant for. It is so extensive that it seems to me if that was supposed to be a list of things to ban, it would be better to ban guns outright. Then something that was missed in compiling the list would be included.

My son's Romanian manufactured .22 caliber bolt action box magazine fed Romanian Army training rifle doesn't appear on the list, but other 22 caliber bolt actions do. It is very confusing, but not necessarily something to panic about, IMO. At present at least.

[glenn kangiser]

I disagree, Don.  It is something to panic about. 

Removal of the right to bear arms or even tampering with it,  I don't care what type of gun it is.  Removing any kind of guns from law abiding citizens leaves only criminals who won't give up their guns with guns.  A law abiding citizen will not shoot another law abiding citizen.  The people in England are victimized every day.



Obama victory prompts US gun rush

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7749474.stm

"But, while many Americans would strongly disagree, gun enthusiasts see this as a struggle not about the right to target-shooting or even hunting in the wild but a dispute in which something much more profound is at stake.

They believe the constitutional guarantee of the people's right to bear arms means that the balance of power between the government and the governed is different in America from anywhere else in the developed world.

Mr Trometer put it like this: "If you start tearing at our fundamental freedoms and you take this right away and then maybe someone else comes along and says, 'You really don't have the right to speak your mind'.

"All of a sudden this framework of rights as a citizen of this country ... there's nothing left." "

[NM_Shooter]

I panic easily over things like this. 

Notice that this is not just a sales ban, this also makes it illegal to possess such things as an AR-15.  It does say that the law does not affect those who have them when the law goes into effect. 

note that high capacity magazines are also banned, but if you have them in your possession prior you are ok.

-f-

[MountainDon]

I disagree, Don.  It is something to panic about. 

The part I say does not need to cause panic is the Sec.6 list. I don't like any bans at all.

I'm saying the presence of that list is hard to understand. It is an appendix to another piece of existing legislation, which is confusing to read. That's all. It seems if a total ban was desired it would be easier to simply state that. Making a list of things to ban, and that is an extensive list, makes it too easy to forget something. 

I want to see what the heck that Sec.6 list is all about before I panic. It's easier on my BP that way.