Stone Hut

[caseyanderica]

Hello,

Hope all is well. We are thinking of building a cabin / hut on our land in California and were thinking of using all the very accessible lava rock field stones from the property to construct 4 stone walls and then use a more traditional method of roofing. I was wondering if anyone has worked with stones and at this capacity? I'm not exactly sure where to begin but I was thinking about creating a skeleton out of wood and then putting chicken wire along the inside of the skeleton, piling the rocks on the sides and then applying some kind of cement in between and on the inside... any suggestions?

Thanks,

Casey

[glenn kangiser]

Hey Casey.  I would likely be the closest to that.

What you are describing would be something like a rubble wall with grout poured between the rocks.  A Ken Kern type of thing. 

I also like the Scottish Blackhouse idea as brought to our forum by Alasdair from Scotland.

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=1014.msg55955#msg55955

Earthen fill - no concrete.




http://www.dualchas.com/heritage.asp

I have done tons of drystacked rock walls here also.

What part of California?

[rwanders]

Interesting-----would you have any rebar in the walls? I am under the impression that non reinforced masonry buildings in earthquake zones have a disturbing tendency to fall in on your head. Masonry walls usually won't flex like wooden walls and just break apart suddenly when over stressed. If you decide to build one, please find a structural engineer for advice.

[glenn kangiser]

Rebar doesn't really like mud and or dirt.  Straw does and works about the same as fibermesh in concrete.

A rubble wall with concrete could and should have rebar and bond beams added.  A rammed earth wall can have concrete posts and beams poured between sections to tie it together.

You will never find a structural engineer that will ever put his name to an unreinforced masonry building that does not have reinforcement built in to protect his hind end from liability.  We have a friend who tried to do a small underground house using engineers and cost was estimated at about 1.5 million.  My basic structure before electricity  is about twice as big as hers was and cost around $5000 in materials. (2000 sf)  It only has some unreinforced masonry (cob) with a wood bond beam and straw reinforcement.  I had to include it since it wasn't allowed.

I suggest studying successful alternative building methods. 

Mike Oehler hired an engineer to design the rule of thumb engineering tables to support the earth over my head - it is in his book.  That was what sold me on his design.  I feel one time with a standard design like he did is good enough  and safe.  There is no need for each individual project to generate thousands and thousands of dollars for every good ol' boy engineer, illegal county permit and taxation parasitic authority and corporation who has lobbied and paid off the building testing agencies and associated bureaucracy.

It is great for those who do not build for themselves and want and need the protection from unscrupulous contractors, but I feel it is not for the owner builder who will take responsibility for his own actions.

Still , as rwanders said - if in doubt consult a local professional.  Even I looked for and found a design that was engineered and that I could trust.  That does not mean I was willing to go in debt to make a years payment on some good ol' boys home.  I spent the $20 for the book.

Note that there are lots of books out there on safe alternative building.  Ultimately you still take responsibility for any non-government prescribed design you choose if you are doing it yourself.  Be safe and err on the side of caution. 

[rwanders]

As always-----good advice from Glenn. If you find an alternative design that looks good you may be able to find an engineer willing to at least give you some "unofficial and unsigned" advice.

[glenn kangiser]

Cob is also considered unreinforced masonry however it is reinforced with straw.  Just because it is not recognized as reinforcement doesn't mean it isn't.  The cob houses generally do well even in earthquakes especially with rounded corners.

A couple foot wide cob wall could incorporate rock into it safely but you won't find anyone to approve it - In general you are on your own with alternative building.

We still have buildings standing around here that were built around 1860 using flat schist or slate rock and mud.  We also have some that have fallen down.  Nearly all that I can think of that have fallen down had a bad or missing roof.

The one on the right is rock and mud.  I checked it myself.  Some had lime added to the mortar but this one appeared to be cemented with local clay between the flat rocks.

[Whitlock]

Cob is also considered unreinforced masonry however it is reinforced with straw.  Just because it is not recognized as reinforcement doesn't mean it isn't.  The cob houses generally do well even in earthquakes especially with rounded corners.

A couple foot wide cob wall could incorporate rock into it safely but you won't find anyone to approve it - In general you are on your own with alternative building.

We still have buildings standing around here that were built around 1860 using flat schist or slate rock and mud.  We also have some that have fallen down.  Nearly all that I can think of that have fallen down had a bad or missing roof.

The one on the right is rock and mud.  I checked it myself.  Some had lime added to the mortar but this one appeared to be cemented with local clay between the flat rocks.


It's funny  that a lot of the old buildings that are still used today in the old mining towns of California are of this type of construction. John Trabuco built a lot of them around here or had them built. Most are still standing and have lived though the test of time. As Glenn stated they last as long as the roofs are intact. The building that he has photographed is for rent at 625.00 per mo. But the owner knows it takes 800.00 a month to keep it heated in the winter. The county won't let him put in a wood stove or any other type of heating. He is stuck with using propane. I think someone in the county building department  probably owns the propane company in town or has a relative that does.

[cordwood]

 My experience with lava rock has not been good, Growing up in the desert we used it for out building foundations and it was very inconsistent and some was down right brittle. It would split without warning ( no obvious seam) but it is light and somewhat forgiving on the back. Overall structurally weak.


Just a guess.....Qwens Valley, Inyo/Kern area?

[muldoon]

hey cordwood, welcome to the forum.  I have been quite interested in that building technique for quite some time; if your perusing a cordwood project I would love for you to take pictures and chronicle your efforts. 

[glenn kangiser]

My experience with lava rock has not been good, Growing up in the desert we used it for out building foundations and it was very inconsistent and some was down right brittle. It would split without warning ( no obvious seam) but it is light and somewhat forgiving on the back. Overall structurally weak.


Just a guess.....Qwens Valley, Inyo/Kern area?

I used to fly and work that area, Cordwood. We really liked it over there - Bishop- Lone Pine - Saline Valley - Bridgeport - Mammoth Lakes- Lee Vining-Randsburg  etc

[cordwood]

hey cordwood, welcome to the forum.  I have been quite interested in that building technique for quite some time; if your perusing a cordwood project I would love for you to take pictures and chronicle your efforts. 

Nope! The tag is a wishful thinking prod for me to get my wood up BEFORE winter . Thought maybe seeing it more might remind me to get it done  .
I hope to get started on our new cabin this winter (clearing and site prep) But it will be more than a year before building starts in earnest. Most likely post/frame type.

[cordwood]

My experience with lava rock has not been good, Growing up in the desert we used it for out building foundations and it was very inconsistent and some was down right brittle. It would split without warning ( no obvious seam) but it is light and somewhat forgiving on the back. Overall structurally weak.


Just a guess.....Qwens Valley, Inyo/Kern area?

I used to fly and work that area, Cordwood. We really liked it over there - Bishop- Lone Pine - Saline Valley - Bridgeport - Mammoth Lakes- Lee Vining-Randsburg  etc

About 20 years ago I was in Bishop almost one week a month either gathering cattle, Cutting firewood or my favorite,... FISHING!!! Though I haven't been north of Red Mountain in many years I still love it there.
Now that I call Arkansas home I still have family in the west and will no doubt be seeing June lake again!

Just got to say so far I like the site and you all seem to make getting splinters and smashing thumbs a lot more fun than I remember !

[Whitlock]

That area has some of the best trout fishing in California. I have to make a trip or two over the pass evey year into that area to fish. Now is the best time of the year to hook into a bigg'n.

Sorry for getting off of track
What kind of lava rock are you planing to use? Is it Basalt, How porrous are the stones?
A great book to look at for this type of constuction is The Stoneworker's Bible.
                                                                                        by J.M.Nickey

Hope this helps,W

[glenn kangiser]

muldoon - Andrew (Ernest T Bass) is our cordwood specialist.  Have you seen his postings.  I found one - I think there are more though.

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2642.0

I must brag on him again.....   Andrew -- sorry...