Dealing with minimum sq. footage restrictions

[ellbaker]

Hi,

First post but many threads read.

We are looking to buy a lakelot in a "restricted" subdivision.  I say restricted because the subdivision is located on a remote section of the lake.  The roads are dirt and I don't think pavement is coming anytime soon.  The county does not have a building department so everything built in the county is done so without permits or inspections.  Scary thought for a buyer but nice for a DIY builder.  I subbed my current home so I am comfortable with the building process.  I also did all my own electric and plumbing in my house.

The minimum sq. footage is 1600 with 1000 on the bottom floor.  I have researched enforcement of restrictions and it is up to the homeowners association (which doesn't exist yet) to enforce.  Violations can result in a fine in the form of a lien or legal lawsuit.  Therefor a majority of the homeowners would have react to a filed complaint and pony up legal fees to prosecute a violator.  So if a tree falls in the woods and no one hears or sees it, did the tree really fall?  Has anyone here tried to build under the minimum sq. footage?

I have have a very limited budget which is being severly sapped by the lot cost.  My long term goal is to retire on the lot but that is a minimum of 10 years away and probably more like 15 years.  I would like to start small and expand later.  I was looking at the 20x30 (expanded to 36 or so) 1.5 story cabin with lots of porches.  Has anyone added wings to the 20x30 cabin plan?  It wouldn't take much to get it to 1000 sq. ft.  The question is do the exterior now and leave it unfinished or add the wings later?

[MountainDon]

You're right, they (the other homepwners) would have to sue you or take whatever other legal recourse they have. Would they? Who knows, especially when "they" don't even exist at this point. But some home owner associations around my suburban home have pursued some scary things. It's bad enough at times to have to deal with the municipality/county let alone a HOA. Just my opinion.

Are there any others there who have built so far? What have they done as far as size? Do the covenants specify a time limit for the construction?

If you're comfortable with all the other covenants could you layout the foundation and build the first portion taking your own sweet time in completion?

My feelings for things like this is why I ended up with an obscure acreage in the mountains.

[okie-guy]

I'm building a 1 and 1/2 story and added 5 feet to the length to make it 35 feet. that would give you 700 square feet with a 200 square feet loft. Do you count a porch (screened in) as part of the square feet? I have added a 10 foot by 24 foot porch which was pretty cheap to bulid since I'm not heating and using a room A/C to  cool. You could build just the house and if you run into problems add a porch to make it up to the 1000 square foot requirement. I also think you need to think about how restrictive covenants can help you. How would you like if the lot next store pulled in a small trailer and put it on blocks and put skirting around? You are going to have a large investment that you will want to protect .Good luck with your project and you can see mine in the builder forum under 1 and 1/2 story in Oklahoma.

[John_C]

You might want to check what the statute of limitations is.  Can they come back at you in 10 years and get a judgment?

Flip side of that goes like this in Georgia.  They have twenty years to set up the homeowners association or all those covenants get thrown out permanently.  The small subdivision in which I live was platted in 1985.  Originally it was the responsibility of whoever subdivided the property to enforce the covenants.  Whether they did or didn't enforce them they expired in 2005 since no homeowners assoc. had been formed.  It didn't matter much since we now have a building department, land use plan, and zoning.   Way more regs than were ever in the the three or four paragraphs of homeowners covenants.

You might well be happier finding some land without the restrictions.

[MountainDon]

Do you count a porch (screened in) as part of the square feet?

This may vary from locale to locale, but around here any sq footage figures do NOT include porches or garages. But the measurements are taken from the outside so the wall spaces count.

[Amanda_931]

Sounds like a perfect excuse to use Straw Bale or Cordwood--or even cob.  

Usually people are fighting the opposite battle--"I've got 18" walls and they want me to pay property taxes on every bit of that!"

[Rover]

In the part of Ontario I plan to build a cottage they count a wood deck as the square footage.

At my home in the city, they count the deck as part of the square footage if it is attached to the house (ie bolt a ledger to the outside of the house).  If the deck is independently supported (ie all on piers), then it is not part of the square footage.

So it really depends.  If there is no regulation I would assume what works best for me..

[MountainDon]

Well Rover, it sounds like you need to build a large deck bolted to the house. If yu make the deck foundation sturdt enough you could enclose it as needed.

[glenn-k]

You may want to check how you are taxed or permit billed on it - may be less if separate. :-?

[hobbiest]

Just a thought, but build an attatched, heated, insulated garage, instant, cheap square footage, and I bet you'd like to have a nice toasty place for a workshop!

[ellbaker]

Are there any others there who have built so far?

Do the covenants specify a time limit for the construction?

If you're comfortable with all the other covenants could you layout the foundation and build the first portion taking your own sweet time in completion?

My feelings for things like this is why I ended up with an obscure acreage in the mountains.

Nothing built yet after 1 year since the opening.  Lots of Floridians are buying the lots with long term plans to build.

1 year to finish construction.

Thinking about laying out the foundation as you suggested.

[ellbaker]

Just a thought, but build an attatched, heated, insulated garage, instant, cheap square footage, and I bet you'd like to have a nice toasty place for a workshop!

BINGO!

The convenants state "No dwelling shall be erected on any lot having less than the following:

Waterfront lots, 1600 square feet heated floor space with a minimum of 1,000 square feet heated floor space."

Looks like I am going to have a garage on my cabin!

[jraabe]

A modification of the garage idea is to plan a compound project made of two or more buildings. These could be small structures that TOTAL the required dwelling footprint requirements. Unless your covenants have a limitation of time in which all building must be completed you could build the first building, move in and then start the 2nd. You might want to show future decks or covered walkways linking these structures. Same could be done with future additions.

I'll bet you can do just about anything that doesn't insult your neighbors or lower their property values. I have a set of rural covenants that were assigned to all the 5 acre parcels in this 40 subdivision. Nobody has ever complained about any of the neighbors despite the fact that several are in clear violation of the covenants (but not of any local laws). Personally, I'd build what I want and make sure I get to know the neighbors.

In bigger developments, such as golfing communities, you can sometimes have an architectural review board that starts to take itself too seriously. Some of those groups can be pretty yappy and snitty.

[BuckiSchloo]

Does anyone know if the minimum sq footage requirement would apply to an addtion as opposed to a new build? I have a 270 sq foot cottage built long before the existence of zoning. The zoning regulations require minimum 960 sq ft. I want to do a 20 by 30 addtion bringing me to 870 sq feet. This would be a 1 1/2 story, would the upper floor count even if I say I am not finishing the second floor at this time (in order to get it finished in the 1yr max building time frame). Wonder if I would be grandfathered in? The zoning administrator seems to be a jerk always talking about what you can not do, as opposed to helping a honest homeowner trying to do the right thing.

Shame that those of us who try to follow the rules get jerked around, treated poorly and charged all kinds of fees while nothing ever seems to happen to the guy down the road who does what he pleases never worrying about permits and restrictions.

   

[MountainDon]

Depends. [size=12]Depends.[/size] [size=14]Depends.[/size] (I've been learning from PEG.) I think I counted 3 questions.  It's all going to depend on your local zoning authority.

The answer to the "addition vs. new" part is probably best answered by the jerk in your zoning administration dept, or by your own research. Maybe they forgot to address adding to existing property? That's probably wishful thinking.

I would guess that the upper floor would not count until completed and if you didn't complete it within the first year, you'd be looking at another permit, etc. down the road.

Grandfathering? My guess is that the existing building is grandfathered, but the moment you decide to do something that they'd charge a pound of flesh for, you may likely have to meet all current zoning requirements. But that's only my cynical, pessimistic guess.

Maybe you should just do like "the guy down the road". I never said you should though.  :-? :-/ [Out of the three major additions I've made here at home, the first one was fully permitted, from bottom thru top with electric, plumbing and heating included and all performed by myself. The process went well, no red tags.   I felt so good about it that in my euphoria I forgot to obtain permits for my subsequent improvements.