Simpson Tie Question

hpinson · June 19, 2012, 06:17:40 PM

I was using Simpson 2x4 joist hangers last weekend for the first time. When cradled in the hanger, the 2x4 stud sticks up above the joist about 1/4 - 1/2 inch. Why is that? I was assuming the stud top should be even with the joist top.

flyingvan · June 19, 2012, 08:00:14 PM

What are the numbers on them? Are they the U24's or PF24's or something else?

June 19, 2012, 08:09:48 PM

Can't say right now because they are up at my build site, but they were the ones labeled for hanging 2x4 joists at Lowes. I'm gleaning from your answer that they should not be as I describe?

flyingvan · June 19, 2012, 09:11:58 PM

http://www.strongtie.com/ftp/catalogs/S-INSTALL09.pdf#page=38

They make a few different joist hangers for 2x4's----this link shows installation instructions. I asked just so I could forward the correct link. I just guessed they were the LUS. In any event, the hanger does not install flush to the top of the rim joist, but down a little bit. The PF24's (PF means post frame) wraps over the top of the rim joist or beam---much stronger but you can't play with the height. They are listed as a height of 3 3/8" so if your nominal 2x4 is 3 1/2, you'd end up with 1/8"---which is the amount of metal the tie adds to the beam, so the top of the Simpson should end up flush with the top of the 2x4
The hangers you have---do they just nail to the face of the beam (or rim joist) or do they have little tabs that straddle the top?

This?

--OR--
This?

hpinson · June 19, 2012, 11:15:07 PM

It is the second one, for sure, the one that has the tabs that straddle the top. Not sure what is going on... it should be as you say and it's not. Maybe I got some with the bend not quite positioned right? Seems like QA/QC should prevent that. I ended up taking a little off the bottom of the 2x4 as this was not a load bearing application.

The Simpson Pocket Guide you posted is super useful. I'm going to repost that to referral links. Thanks!

June 19, 2012, 11:23:01 PM

Or now that I think of it, maybe the wet green Lowes pressure treated 2x4 lumber was a little out of spec.

flyingvan · June 19, 2012, 11:40:57 PM

I've found Simpson to be a pretty user frinedly company---I've special ordered from them and they helped me get exactly what I needed. I even bought their stock since they have a near lock on the strong tie market.

PEG688 · June 19, 2012, 11:42:46 PM

Quote from: hpinson on June 19, 2012, 06:17:40 PM
I was using Simpson 2x4 joist hangers last weekend for the first time. When cradled in the hanger, the 2x4 stud sticks up above the joist about 1/4 - 1/2 inch. Why is that? I was assuming the stud top should be even with the joist top.

#1: If at all possible, toe nail the member in place first , add the hanger after.

#2: If Option 1 isn't going to work due to the situation you have cut a small block of the material you're using, put it in the hanger , flush out the top of the block , nail hanger in place . Move to next hanger. Then come back and set the members into the pre-set hangers.

The above options work with all but the top flange hanger , those you are sort of screwed if you have "fat" lumber like PT generally is. Option #1 being the best as with some PT 2x8 , 10, 12 they can vary as much as a 1/4" at times , so the small block option #2 can still result in some misalignment .

G/L PEG

MountainDon · June 21, 2012, 06:06:42 PM

Wet PT will shrink down when it dries.

June 22, 2012, 09:23:26 AM

Quote from: Mand twistountainDon on June 21, 2012, 06:06:42 PM
Wet PT will shrink down when it dries.

and twist

Don_P · June 22, 2012, 06:33:03 PM

and bow

firefox · June 22, 2012, 07:25:06 PM

So, if you want to use PT, then what procedures do you follow so that you end up with
dry, straight, etc lumber to work with?
Is getting it kiln dried practical or is way too expensive?
If you have time and a shed to dry the stuff out in, then what is the right procedure to follow?

I figure the best way is to be properly prepared before you start building.

Bruce

MountainDon · June 22, 2012, 08:00:44 PM

Foundation grade PT is kiln dried again after being treated.

I've had best luck with getting the PT wood from the store/yard to the place of use and getting it installed and secured as quickly as possible. Our gazebo framing was done in all PT wood, some so wet it splashed as I nailed. There are a couple of pieces that twisted some, one real bad, but as a floor plank it was easily replaced. All the PT used for the cabin porch and battery power center behaved itself pretty much except for one real nasty 2x8.

I've not had things go as well when the PT material sits around, but then home is a real desert and the cabin mountains are pretty much a higher desert with a little more water, but still dry to anyone in most parts of the country.

Side note: I have had PT 2x readily snap off the common deck screws as the wood dries out. We have a PT boardwalk that gives continual problems where there are screws. The 2x replacements that were nailed with ring shanks or spirals serve much better. Some of the boards still warp but at least they don't come loose.

Don_P · June 22, 2012, 09:27:11 PM

I guess the two schools are, dry it and cull what doesn't make it, or, nail it up green and try to hold it straight as it dries.

The first method makes stronger connections and culls out the worst offenders, and some that might not have been. The second method yields weaker connections, more slop and some bad boards will not stay in place as they dry. It is the way we work with treated most often.

You can pick the lumber and try to read the grain. Pith, or juvenile wood is generally bad news. I have one board on the deck I leave just to watch. It has broken 4 screws and one end is now free. The face of the board is right through the heart containing lots of juvenile wood on that face. The bottom stays moister being on the underside and is more mature wood. After a rain the board lays flat on the deck. After a day of bright sun and wind it curls up off the deck 6". Odd grain will tie a board in knots as the moisture content changes.

June 22, 2012, 09:37:21 PM

Thanks for clearing this up and hopefully this will help the original poster.
Bruce

hpinson · June 22, 2012, 09:38:08 PM

Yes, this explains the problem I had-- the PT 2x4 I used/ were wet to the the touch.

I don't think we can even get kiln dried pressure treated wood in Albuquerque. Really there is no choice but to take what the box stores offer, which is often almost dripping wet.

I've taken to sun drying the wet cedar 4x4's that I have been getting from Lowes and HD; rotating them, and using weights, which usually results, after a few weeks in the very hot New Mexico sun, straight lumber. Sometimes the wood goes twisty no matter what.