shearwall inspection questions

[MountainDon]

Great Mike. A realistic inspector! What luck.

[glenn kangiser]

Ringshank or screw nails hold about 9 times more in pull out resistance than straight nails, per Ken Kern.

[PEG688]

Ringshank or screw nails hold about 9 times more in pull out resistance than straight nails, per Ken Kern.

Humm I bet no Engineer / engineering takes that into account. They  just say "X" penny nail ,  "X" inches OC , nail all edges,  as per sheet "umpty squak", etc .

I've never noticed any spec for ring shank or screw nails in a shear wall spec. , not saying Ken isn't right and or that some engineer haven't ever spec'ed them , But it would be rare  from what I've seen. 

[MountainDon]

Try taking something that was built using ring shanks or spiral nails apart.   

[glenn kangiser]

Probably no spec, but I'm sure he's right.  I have shot Senco 10d galv rig shanks into my old bridge timbers to hold on guard rails and decided to change them.  All the ringshanks stayed in the bridge timbers and pulled through the 2x4 as I removed it.

Ken thought that if you were going to the effort of putting a nail into something you may as well use one that will hold.  Smooth nails would have been easy to remove.  So - I usually always use ring shank or screw nails -- never know what I may want to shoot next.

[glenn kangiser]

Try taking something that was built using ring shanks or spiral nails apart.   

You got that right. Makes good fire wood after you finish.

[PEG688]

Gun nails , most , don't hold that well , even the ring shanks . I sure due to the rings not being as large or deep as a hand drive. Something about the gun and  how it feeds the nails, or would not feed if the rings where deeper / bigger  I think.

[MountainDon]

Hand driven hot dip galvies are about the best/worst.


and with that opinion, g'nite 

[PEG688]

Hand driven hot dip galvies are about the best/worst.


and with that opinion, g'nite 

Back at ya  g'nite.

[John Raabe]

I think (perhaps  ) that while ring shank nails, gluing and other techniques of increasing the withdrawal resistance of a panel to framing connection do WORK, they do so at the cost of a "graceful failure". That is, they tend to be very strong up to a point and then fail all at once. Engineers like the softer landing of good old wire and wood fiber construction as it gives a warning when it is starting to get meaningful stresses.

Creak.....Crack......Crash.

[Garrett In Tahoe]

All good suggestions although I think John is right. I've yet to see an Engineer ever spec a ring shank, twist, or hd nail in this application. Generally they spec 16d commons and most people always use 16d gun nails or sinkers without reprocussions later. It has been my experience that if you match the nailing pattern of the perimeter edge nailing, and nail the plates together with that spacing it passes. Another words if your edge nailing is 4" o.c. then you stagger your nailing of your sole plate to your mudsill at 4" o.c. This helps to transfer the shear panel to the mudsill. Ultimately the engineer will have the last say in the matter and hopefully the building inspector will concur. I think the best fastener for uplift would be a 3" SDS screw vs any nail but they are pricey and probably not necessary.

[PEG688]

I think (perhaps  ) that while ring shank nails, gluing and other techniques of increasing the withdrawal resistance of a panel to framing connection do WORK, they do so at the cost of a "graceful failure". That is, they tend to be very strong up to a point and then fail all at once. Engineers like the softer landing of good old wire and wood fiber construction as it gives a warning when it is starting to get meaningful stresses.

Creak.....Crack......Crash.

Like that bridge in Minnesota , and all these cranes that have "gracefully " fall in recently 

I'm not sure I totally agree with that assessment , wood , generally , does fail more gently than steel . IMO they , Engineer's,  just know that can't be policed as well , exact type of nail as well as size , which (size) is easier to check , whether glue is applied evenly , weather conditions where "right" IE:  dry / not to cold freezing etc ,  for proper adhesion etc all are factors not controllable / check able etc .

There are other factors to hard to control or verify in the field.

I also think thats why Simpson straps and hardware are popular , you can control that , you can't control the "ifs " of poor workmanship.

Thats all I've got to say about that.    Well maybe    

[cedarglen]

One more note on engineering. I am building the universal 2 story in California earthquake territory and I got my plans through plancheck with NO ENGINEERS STAMP. There is prescribed engineering which is simple to design and follow. I have no simpsons ties in my plans. The plan check technition said he never saw a 2 story designed without an engineers stamp, but when he went back to his books he found out that you can build a 2 story single family residence in CA with prescribed engineering. The prescribed engineering is basically just a full 4x8 sheet of plywood nailed 6 and 12 starting no farther than 8' from each end of each wall line and every 24' on center. In other words, if you are solid sheathing your house and pick your door and window placement carefully , it is already engineered. There is a little more to know about interior partitions, but basically drywall on both sides of an interior wall line takes care of that. There is also prescribed routes for energy calcs also.

[glenn kangiser]

Good info, cedarglen.  Thanks.

[PEG688]

 That's in part true cedar , the prescriptive path can be followed.

You will end up with some Simpson ties or similar brand at some point . Joist hangers , H1/ H2.5 to tie the rafters or trusses down with come to mind.

But yes it can be done without engineerering .

[cedarglen]

Actually you don't need the H1's or joist hangers as long as you follow the nailing schedule. (although I did use H1's because they are just a good idea, and they made it easier for me to set my 2x10 rafters working alone).

[PEG688]

 Not where I live and work , there is no nailing schedule that would work high wind zone along with seismic zone D  , the H1/ H2.5 are standard. 

  IF code is enforced. Lots of places built without them years ago , most are still standing / useable.

[Willy]

Not where I live and work , there is no nailing schedule that would work high wind zone along with seismic zone D  , the H1/ H2.5 are standard. 

  IF code is enforced. Lots of places built without them years ago , most are still standing / useable.

They have saved open front buildings on my place when we had 80 MPH straite winds once. Those winds would have lifted up the roofs real easy with out them. I double them up compaired to code cause there cheap. I am putting them on the cabins roof also but there not required. Sure makes it easy to line up rafters and give you a bracket to hold them with one short nail for a while. Mark

[MountainDon]

Even though the thought of lining Mr. Simpsons pocket with my cash irks me, those H1's are handy and cheap and could make a difference some windy day down the road.  OMMV

[glenn kangiser]