Framing with hardwood

RIjake · October 11, 2010, 05:20:50 PM

This might seem like a stupid question but humor me...

We've got a woodlot of about 17 acres that is densely growing beech, maple, birch and oaks. Our plan is to build a cabin on the property for a retreat. I've been in the building trades for over 20 years so I get the reasons why softwoods are used for house framing. However, when I have conversation with friends (many of whom know very little about building) about my land and my plans to build they always ask why I don't use my own trees to build it. Now we do have plans to use some timber for cabinets and flooring but why not framing? A Google search for "framing with hardwood" yielded nothing so I ask the pros here.

Other than hardwood being heavy to work with why wouldn't I use my own hardwoods? Our only cost is to have it milled. Am I missing something here?

MountainDon · October 11, 2010, 05:36:52 PM

Do you have inspections, building permits, etc. to deal with? That lumber would not be graded (have the graders stamp).

Maybe if you were building hefty post and beam construction, but I would hate to build with hardwood 2x4's, 2x6's etc myself. Darn tough applying drywall or T&G boards for example.

October 11, 2010, 05:55:56 PM

The grader's stamp is one thing that I didn't think of. I'm not sure what the requirements are for that in my town.

When you mention hanging the drywall would be tough do you mean screwing is tough because it's so hard?

I'd love to go with post and beam but I have zero experience with that method so it would be a learning experience.

Don_P · October 11, 2010, 05:59:49 PM

Many older stick framed buildings here are red oak framed. It does require a drill to pilot most nails on the dry wood now. It nails easily green, I used some today. We've milled, borated and stacked about 7,000 bf of oak since Thursday. I did have it milled for heavy timber use and trim rather than dimensional. Here at home I'm thinning an overgrown beech grove and milling into the same sizes. I prefer to use it as heavy timber but there is nothing wrong with using it for dimensional. The AFPA spancalc has many hardwood species listed. You can also download the book "Supplement design values for wood construction", it includes those species from the awc.org publications list

I talked with one of the lab techs from the US Forest Products Labs a few years ago. He was testing lightweight trusses made using red maple They held the metal truss plates so well that the steel tore before the nail plates pulled out. They've also experimented with hardwood glulams.

We can talk about some simpler post and beam methods

RIjake · October 11, 2010, 07:55:09 PM

Don,
Great info, thanks a lot.

One thing that concerns me about post and beam is how to get a high insulation factor out of it without getting into SIPS panels. I'd love to hear about any other options you may have.

October 11, 2010, 10:20:47 PM

One method I've used a number of times is "wrap and strap" on a roof. From the inside out it was heavy timber rafters covered by 2x6 T&G decking. Several layers of polyiso foam with joints offset and taped. 2x4's laying flat applied up and down the roof to provide an air channel under 5/8" ply then felt and shingles. Wall construction could be similar.

Our current project will be conventionally framed on the exterior walls. There will be post and beam elements on the interior, so that's another way around it.
There are good post and beam details here, I call this mill type construction. I like the look of wood side plates with bolts;
http://www.awc.org/pdf/wcd5.pdf

Edit;
I've been working on some interior shots to make sure I'm on the same page with the clients. This is walking in the front entry, dining room is behind the half height panels, greatroom straight ahead, kitchen back and left, bar behind furthest half height wall. The stairs are to the right of the 2 right side posts. The beams overhead die into pockets in the frame walls, the second floor is above this frame. I'm switching to a conventionally framed floor system above, it could be heavy timber joists and decking.

glenn kangiser · October 11, 2010, 11:02:37 PM

I remember reading of one person who built his house completely of oak, but don't think he was a member of our forum.

Good info, Don. Thx.

bayview · October 12, 2010, 09:37:47 PM

Maybe you could sell the milled hardwood to pay for your construction.

We had a neighbor "up north" that cut a few walnut trees from his property. Had them milled and graded. It paid for the complete property.

/.

RIjake · October 13, 2010, 11:56:54 AM

Quote from: bayview on October 12, 2010, 09:37:47 PM
Maybe you could sell the milled hardwood to pay for your construction.

We had a neighbor "up north" that cut a few walnut trees from his property. Had them milled and graded. It paid for the complete property.

/.

yeah, that was an option too, I just thought it would be cool to build my place with my own wood.

October 13, 2010, 03:44:03 PM

Quote from: Don_P on October 11, 2010, 10:20:47 PM
One method I've used a number of times is "wrap and strap" on a roof. From the inside out it was heavy timber rafters covered by 2x6 T&G decking. Several layers of polyiso foam with joints offset and taped. 2x4's laying flat applied up and down the roof to provide an air channel under 5/8" ply then felt and shingles. Wall construction could be similar.
/

Wow, that's gonna make quite a thick roof system. How many layers of rigid foam board and how thick?

Don_P · October 13, 2010, 05:10:52 PM

The last one I did had 5" of polyiso, 2-2" layers and a 1" layer so we were 8-5/8" thick above the rafters. The first ones I worked on in the early 70's had 2" of foam over the decking and we nailed the shingles down right on top of the foil using 3" roofing nails. The foil burned the shingles out in pretty short order on several roofs. This vented approach seems to work.