14 x 24 Olympic Peninsula

[Phssthpok]

..........  I am focused on those small windmills that pick up in light airs....one at first, we'll see how it does.   

If I may be so bold...I'd steer away from the AIR series. I've personally witnessed them in action. They sound like an electric weed-eater when they are moving fast enough to make any kind of power. A combination of buzz, hiss, and whistle. This is not in and of itself a 'bad' thing if, like myself, you can tune out such steady noises with thoughts of all the juice getting pumped into your batteries.

HOWEVER, the 'new' AIR-X models have an electronic brake which is supposed to 'slow' the blades to prevent this noise. Unfortunately what it actually DOES is brake the blades down to the point of not producing any appreciable power, then lets them ramp back up to speed, whereupon it's braked down again. Repeat ad infinitum until you are driven mad by the rhythmic whiiiIIIZZZZ-SHEWoooowhiiiIIZZZZ-SHEWooooowhiiiIIIZZZZ-SHEW all the while KNOWING that the brake (intended to reduce noise) is wasting the wind keeping the genny from actually producing any usable power.

This little unit however was quietly making a few watts (~10 watts I think) while the aforementioned AIR-Z hadn't even rotated to track the wind (read: light breeze) yet.....despite the fact that the D-400 was mounted only about 15 feet off the ground just above a vendors tent, while the AIR-X was mounted 30' up and out away from any surrounding structures.

I attribute the superior low wind performance to the D-400 having five blades to the AIR-X's three, and the width of said blades as well. While the AIR-X was going through it's annoying power/brake cycle, the D-400 was happily whirring away making good usable power....~75-100watts if i recall corredtly. There was noise from the turbine blades, but nowhere NEAR the whizzzz of the AIR-X under power-making conditions and it was STEADY...like the chirping of crickets, or the hiss of the wind through trees....very easy to tune out.

[glenn kangiser]

I like my Bergey XL1. 

It has a rather pleasant sound and is 85 feet above the ground putting out up to over 1000 watts at times but around here it is generally 50 to a few hundred watts a few hours a day..... but hey, it's all good.

http://www.bergey.com/Products/XL1.html 

It's rated about the top of the wind turbines in most cases.

I can't see an electronic brake lasting if it operates by friction.

I believe it was the Air turbines sold by a dealer on lake Powell that he said he had to buy back from the customers - they were not happy with them.

[PEG688]

The future is not certain as the Senator is not running for re-election,

Which one? Is this common knowledge? Maybe you don't want to say which one.

[PEG688]

#1:  A)  P.S. do i have to start a Dan's jail thread now...?

        B)   i thought i was kinda on topic...


  #2: P.S.S. i'll be good...just don't bust me down to "minus" newbie status...

  #1:   A) Glenn takes care of those 

          B) The "dogs trotting" was the drift,  it was building related  so still acceptable , but close to marginal.     

  #2:   Again that Glenn's department, he does all the "busting" on this forum. Sort of like a sailor going to Captain's Mast, you / we   are this mercy. So far he's been a benevolent ruler.

        So there your lesson in thread drift, off topic, a couple of salvo's over the Administrator's bow  , that oughta do it.

       Glenn I still have that jumpie screen issue , for info it started on my #2 answer line. It's a PITA really , any other reports of this ? I do NOT have this issue any other place but C/P's 

Oh and Poppy's right short and  spaced sentence's are easier to answer and / or respond to, IMO, as well.

  G/L PEG 

     

[Dandlite]

lol...Thanks fer the "support" Peg...so...

that means i can or can't respond to this wind gen. nonsense i just saw posted again from someone who based the whole post on the theory that goes kinda like this...

i have a car...and it has a gas pedal...and everytime i put the pedal to the metal i seem to keep running into things in front of me...and can't figure out why...? has to be the cars fault...

it could get a little "juicy"...lol...so take that into consideration...! i've been know at times to bring some servers down with me "stuff"...but hey...look at it this way...could attract some bodies...and bodies buy plans...Dan...

P.S. did i do better with the writing...? after Gore invented the internet i think i was the 2-3rd person online...it's always been my style...still can't type or spell to good though...but i usually get me point across using simple words in a simple way...i like things simple...

[poppy]

Dan

P.S. did i do better with the writing...?

Yes, much better.   Now, if you could just use the shift key.   Sorry, I had a tough English teacher.

[Beavers]

Glenn I still have that jumpie screen issue , for info it started on my #2 answer line. It's a PITA really , any other reports of this ? I do NOT have this issue any other place but C/P's 

I have the same problem,  makes it really hard to type a post! 

Sorry Considerations for continuing the hijack of your thread. 
Feel free to delete this post after reading it Glenn!

[Dandlite]

that should get me within the outer limits of jail time...

to do a quick comparison of the X...XL-1 (which should get me time for sure depending on what kind of humor a mod has) and the D400...

1. cost...X about $700...(i got 3 fer 1800) XL1 about $2700 and the D 400 about $2000 with the regulator it needs...
wow...ok...it seems we're off to a real good start...that all looks pretty even to me...

but...to get it a bit closer we're gonna use 3 X's instead of one...cost now $2100...now we're close...
that gets us to putting them up in the air so we can actually use them...

from the same site a tower kit of 80 feet for the XL1 is about $2200...i would never put anything that hi off the ground that spins or may need mantinence...but that's just me...nor would i spend that kind of money to do it...plus...getting the tower up...not sure what that costs...i ain't climbing that baby if something goes wrong...i like watts but have my limits what i'll do to get them...

the X and the d 400 would be similar to get up...i had my 3 X's up for about $300 or less...poles..wire...by meself hooked to da batteries and working...i could get one up or down in less then an hour all alone...we're talking the gens "up" here poppy...follow along carefully or you'll get off track...

some simple electric stuff needs to be put in here...watts = volts X amps...sorry to those that already know that...

my system was 48v...to keep this simple we'll use 50 volts for the X...times the 30 amps i saw with me own eyes gave me 1500 watts for the 3 X's or about 500 watts each at the time they shut down...which happens at about a wind of 30 mph...that's what they are designed to do...and mine did it fine...they are not designed to operate in winds over 30 mph...if a hurricane is coming at ya or a bad storm when the winds will be high the simple solution is to just throw a switch..it disconnects the X from the batteries and shuts it down till the wind conditions are more favorable...

from the D400 manual..."basically"...i'm not gonna word for word it...

it should never be allowed to run unloaded for more then a few minutes...
in open circuit the D400 will overspeed and very hi voltages can be produced...!
i think i'd rather have something that would not self distruct or blow the regulater or..."there is a risk of damage to the machines rectifiers"...
in hi wind conditions i can deal with the way the X handles it...or throw the switch...

more manual...
in hi winds it is prudent to stop the machine and secure the blades with rope...! lol...! hold on it gets better...

The D400 can be stopped by gripping the tail and turning the machine out of the wind, securing the blades once they have stopped spinning...!
at least they tell ya to lasso the blades after they stop spinning...how thoughful...!
boss there's gonna be a t-storm...so i gotta get home and lasso me D400 so it doesn't self destruct...BRB...!
who's gonna shimmey up there pole or tower and lasso a wind gen...? yee-haw...! ahhh...not me...!
this is really in da manual...!

more..now ya can also use a switch...basically...
in certain conditions the rotor can overcome the braking effect..(switch)
for this reason the braking switch should only be used to slow the unit prior to manually stopping it....!
if the machine is left to run with the braking switch engaged serious damage can occur to the gen...!
ahhh...boss...i put a switch in but still gotta run home cause da switch just gives me some time to lasso the gen...! yee-haw....!
if i'm not back in an hour..well...da blades won...!

this post about the D400 makes no sense in that it's hard to tell what any of it means...were the X and the D400 together...? not really clear...

if so then the X was either operating in a wind over 30mph or it wasn't connected to a battery...both of those would cause the X to spin up and shut down...and again the post states that the D400 was "happily" making power...75-100 watts...while the X was going through it's spin/brake cycle...?
what it doesn't say is "one" X would be in the 400-500 watt range in that kinda wind condition up until it shuts down..no lasso...3 of them...well...a bit more then a "happy" 100 watts...

i will say that the D400 at about a 30 mph wind would be putting out about 250 watts or so...takes about a 35 mph wind to get 400 watts...
they are designed to operate (or blow up) in a different range of wind...most of us here in da US of A wanna make power in a more useable range...10 or below to 30 or so...that's where the X is designed to be...not many get 30 mph winds or more for any length of time...

hi glenn...(i'm gonna be careful here) 3 x's probably won't do what yer XL 1 will do...but...6 of them at about 4-5k up and spinning i think ya be toast...
my thinking also was that if one broke i take it out and the rest keep making power...can't do that with one big one...
i would also like ta ask ya a question...
how many times have ya climbed the 85 foot tower and roped the XL ta shut it down...? now tell the truth... Dan...

p.s. just for fun...how long would it take ya to get that XL down...? and how many people or stuff is needed...?

[glenn kangiser]

I got it up by myself, Dan.  Took me about 10 hours.  I built my own 85 foot tower out of junk from my back yard.  I did buy the cable to guy it with.  I made the mounts for the cable at every 20 feet.  I built the generator mount.  I drilled holes in 2000 lb rocks and moved them where I needed them with my John Deere and Bobcat.

Getting in down? hmm About 5 minutes with a torch. [idea]

Oh... you mean so it is still usable?

I would say about 5 to 10 hours but it is likely to stay up 10 years or more before needing servicing and for that I may just bring up my 80' manlift from the valley.

I burn off excess wind generator power by pumping water with a relay attached to the dump load relay of the Bergey XL1.

[glenn kangiser]

PEG, with you doing so much of the heavy lifting here, I don't have to spend a lot of time being a cop.

I do kick spammers off of the forum weekly though.

...and rude mean nasty people once in a while...

[considerations]

"The future is not certain as the Senator is not running for re-election,

Which one? Is this common knowledge? Maybe you don't want to say which one."

Oops, don't worry, I don't work for a Washington state or Washington DC senator.   I also don't care for politiking....but yikes, the pay is pretty good, especially for telecommuting. Actually, the Senator is in the Commonwealth of the Northern Marianas,  north of Guam....yes, part of the United States.

Right now their election cycle is not in sync with the rest of the nation, so there will be a general election in November this year.  There is an initiative going on the ballot to sync up now because they finally have a Representative in the House in DC. Without the initiative passing, they will have to have an election every year....so I hope it passes.

If nothing else, I've learned a lot about both sides of the issues....what the "public" sees/is told and what really happens "on the hill".  It runs the gamut....but even in politics, the 80/20 rule applies....80% of the elected officials work their butts off to do a good job, and the other 20% make the news.   

Suffice it to say that unless a person goes through a bill line by line, with an understanding of the Constitutional issues that bedrock the concept, and the layers of prior laws that create the scenario triggering the perceived need for the bill, financial costs vs social benefits analysis, along with long term effects analysis....well, that's why the war of the sound bytes can be so polarizing, and are a cheap and dirty tool for swaying public opinion.   

They'd all be lost if it weren't for the staffers though.  We're the ones who read, and research, and write, and explain, and extrapolate down stream effects, fend off stupid, special interest, and knee-jerk legislation, and and and .....  oh well, enough said. 

I come here to enjoy myself and stay sane. I'm much happier with a hammer in my hand. At least at the end of the day I can actually see what I've accomplished.   

[considerations]

Wind mills - I haven't made a decision as to which one yet....so the discussion about them is fine with me.  I plan, like Glenn, to channel excess power to a water pump...I have an old well down by the creek, and really hate paying for city water just to irrigate the garden with chlorinated water...dumb.  There will just be an overflow system that channels the excess water back to the creek...

The way the winds are around here, it will be a good way to augment the solar.  All in good time, I suppose.

[considerations]

Impatient



Should wait...don't want to - Didn't



Still doing the chinese fire drill with the budget.  The Legislature postures, changes their minds, all the documents change to keep up...they don't like the outcome, change their minds again, the documents change.....  This will be over sooooooooon

[ScottA]

Looks like home. You're not the first one that's moved into an unfinished house.

Is that a boat stove under the window? Are you going to install it in the house?

[considerations]

Is that a boat stove under the window?  Yes

Are you going to install it in the house?  Its destined for the office, a separate 10 x 12 outbuilding that is currently full of stuff for the cabin. 

I've been staring at it for a few days.....think I'm going to put it up on a couple concrete blocks and away from the walls and stick a 2 hour can of gel alcohol in it to see about getting the chill off in the AM. 

Its too heavy for the cats to knock over, and the flame would be inside the stove.  Just cogitating. 

[emcvay]

I'm stretching credulity with the codes, but I'm not alone in that out here.

"21.01.045 Exemptions.

Section 105.2 of the International Building Code (IBC) as published by the International Code Council regarding exemptions from permit requirements shall be amended to read as follows:

1. One-story detached accessory buildings used as tool and storage sheds, playhouses, and similar uses and classified as U Occupancies, provided that such buildings are for private use only and are accessory to single family dwellings and provided the floor area does not exceed 400 square feet. Eaves may project not more than 24 inches beyond the wall line.

You know Considerations, this is the sort of thing I need to think about *snicker*....you see, I've been fighting this issue with my place and have begun calling mine a 'shop' on the advice of others.

The 12x24 is 336 sq ft on the main floor so perhaps you're on to something.

Of course, putting in power etc could be an issue -- but anyway, I've enjoyed reading your progress and appreciate the code reference!

Erik

[considerations]

"I've been fighting this issue with my place and have begun calling mine a 'shop' on the advice of others."

I'm pushing the envelope fairly hard, and you have to make your own choices about "dancing with the code".  However, more than one person in this area says I should just put a carport type roof over the 5th wheel, tell everyone it is the residence, and call the cabin my studio. 

Cant get in trouble just for sleeping in the studio.

I'm off the grid and still using a chamber pot at night and a portajohn for the important stuff, so the sanitation and electrical permitting issues are fairly hard for a county to pin down.

This area is kind of remote - there are places like it in many states.  The county is pretty large, land wise and has a small population. 

I think the county has to pick its enforcement battles and there are lots bigger fish than I, plus this is a part of the county where officials and officers tend to tread cautiously, based on experience.  Nothing I did, just the history around here.  Ever heard of Ma Kettle? 

Anyhow, life is a gamble no matter what you do....just have to decide how much you want to bet.   

Being unnoticed is fine. Raising a ruckus about something one doesn't like or agree with can get one pinned in the cross hairs.   

I've probably said too much already.

[emcvay]

Being unnoticed is fine. Raising a ruckus about something one doesn't like or agree with can get one pinned in the cross hairs.   

True enough -- however, if we don't raise a ruckus then nothing will change -- the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

I think it's time for American's to stand up and demand liberty -- it's their/our right and we've let it slip away for too long.

[considerations]

"the squeaky wheel gets the grease"

or gets replaced 

being on the bleeding edge of things can accomplish a lot, or just a bloody forehead.

[emcvay]

"the squeaky wheel gets the grease"

or gets replaced 

being on the bleeding edge of things can accomplish a lot, or just a bloody forehead.

Sadly there is truth here -- specially if you are being noisy on the side of freedom and liberty.

I'm related to James Otis -- who was referred to as the 'spark that ignited the American revolution' by John Adams -- he however did get the bloody forehead after the brits tried to kill him.

Sadly, if I were screaming for more regulation and control by the Government then I'd not be so unpopular -- very sad actually since this is supposed to be the land of the free and the home of the brave

Perhaps it's 'the land of the used to be free and the home of the once brave'.

[considerations]

I've done some headbutting, sometimes it worked, sometimes not...now my focus is the little piece of woods I pretend is mine.

If I smell condos going up across the creek or something like sidewalks and sewers coming, I'll rise to the occasion, but I moved here partly because this is rural enough to where that kind of thing won't happen anytime soon. 

That's not to say I don't stick up for myself, but my strategies are a lot different than they used to be. 

I protested my property taxes, and won.  They weren't expecting someone to know enough about the actual state law vs the county regulations to beat them at their own game.   I got what I wanted and no bloody forehead.   

[considerations]

Yes, I'm still in the land of the living.. ..just was temporarily pinned to other responsibilities, Mom had back surgery, etc....

The cabin is 14 x 24 with 10' walls and the area is open to the 12/12 roof.  The walls will be R22 and the ceiling is R30. I've looked at Rinnai, Empire, Housewarmer, and Eskabe. 

Don's right there are so many choices it's hard to know which way to jump.   

What I'm hoping is you can/will tell me what make and model you purchased, how long you have had it and your opinion of how its working for you.

Just purchased the Bosch outdoor on demand water heater.....should be here soon!

[considerations]

Finally - and its freezing around here



Crude but functional



Finally, some noticeable progress......no laughing, its warm. 

[MountainDon]

Isn't it rewarding to see the first smoke coming out of your own chimney?  !!!      I still enjoy the sight.

[ScottA]

Nothing like a fire to make it feel like home.