Support interior brick wall?

[ScottA]

I'm building on a pier and beam foundation and I want to use brick behind my wood stove and on the floor. The brick portion will be about 2' 6" wide by 7' high on the wall and 2'6" x 4' on the floor. Question is will I need masonry all the way to the ground under this or can it be supported by the wood framing with some extra braces under the area in question?

Scott

[John_C]

It's not usually necessary to have masonry all the way to the ground, BUT you will have to transmit the load to an adequate, possibly oversize, footing.  

What house you are building? Where is the brickwork?.. Outside wall over a beam? Middle of the joist span? What are your soil conditions?  To quote PEG  "It depends".

[ScottA]

It's a custom design 16x26. There is a 3x 2x6 beam running directly under the location with a 5' span between piers. It's in the center of the house. Basicly there are 3 beams running the length of the house. One in the center and 2 along the outside walls. Floor joists are 2x6x16' spanned across those beams. The brick will be against an interior wall and on the floor under the stove with the wide side of the brick against the wall and floor. If that makes sence?

Scott

[jb52761]

Scott....for what it's worth, and not to stray anyone from our wonderful forum here, I installed my wood stove two years ago with absolutely no experience. Prior to starting, I found a wealth of information and help on the forum at www.hearth.com . Lots of question/answer areas, and the folks there also answer in a timely manner.....Good Luck.....jb

[PEG688]

Well done JohnC  

 Scott sounds like you'll be fine , lay the hearth first then set the "up the wall bricks" on the hearth brick , it will spread the load out some .

Remember to  mortar in some "tie in metal tabs " as you go up the wall.

IF that hearth and the behind the stove brick would have been out in the "field " and running parallel / the same direction as the floor joist it would have been advisable to double up a few  /couple of joist directly under the hearth .  

 And jb , what you not getting the answer you need here?  :-/ In a timely manner

[ScottA]

OK from what I can figure we are talking about less than 900lbs of bricks sitting on about 10 sq. ft. of floor space. with most of that (2/3) weight under the wall portion on less than 1 sq. ft. of floor. The 2 piers that support this area are on 16"x16"x12" concrete footers in clay gravel soil which is about as firm as ground gets. I'm no engineer but it seems this should work. I guess I'm looking for someone to say whoa if I'm way off on this. None of this is built yet so I can change it if need be. Just something I never fully resolved. How much weight can a 2x6 take before it starts to deform?

Scott

[glenn kangiser]

Point load - round figures depends on wood -- fiber stress -- 900 to 1000 psi. but the floor is rated at about 40 psf if I recall correctly.  

PEG works with this stuff all of the time - reads carefully and probably has a pretty good handle on it but - if you are a bit away from the beam - not centered on the piers - have questions about the foundation- add a pier block or two on gravel with a header under the area if the beam is not under the vertical part of the wall to support the extra load. You can add blocking between the joists if necessary depending on your foundation system.  Put the posts in tight so they really support the load.

Also you will have maybe 100 to  300 lbs of stove plus wood plus people concentrated in that area.  

[PEG688]

 Your fine , as you are.

The last question is sort of a misnomer, your not looking at what one lone 2x6 can deal with , but the "corporate " strength of the concrete footer , pier , built up  beam , floor joist ,  & sub-floor combo unit.

  You might add a post in that area , push the two you have maybe 2 feet away from each other and add one centered between them. Make those 3 footings  wider    , say 24 x24 x 12 , so a BIGGER foot print.

But 900 lbs of dead weight,  as in not moving like people do , is no big deal on a ground floor level. IF you where building it on a second or third floor different storey  in some ways.  

[glenn kangiser]

There you go from the man who knows.  (my computer is locking up this morning --- -trouble posting.

[MountainDon]

"bricks against the wall behind the wood stove" raises a question in my mind. You've likely got this properly under control but I just have to ask...

Are you using brick for its fire proofing qualities as well as aesthetics? Are you going to install the brick with a 1" airspace, with provision for airflow,  between the brick and the wood structure behind the brick. I only ask because brick brick placed directly over combustibles will eventually transfer heat through the brick. It is possible for the combustibles behind the brick to reach very high temps. Without the airspace the brick does not really offer the protection one might think.

[ScottA]

Thanks for all the help. You guys are great. Peg you're right I wasn't really asking how much one 2x6 would hold just looking for a place to start the maths. Seems to me then that I should add solid blocking under the wall area and maybe a couple of extra joists in this area. I'm planning on 16" centers on the floor joists so maybe I should slide 2 extras in between where the hearth is going. I like Glens idea of the header on pier blocks under the wall which stradles the main beam. The floor joists run with the wall. The floor I'm using should be rated for 40psi dead load L/360 if the calculations are right. So the bricks would exceed this by about double.

Scott

[ScottA]

 MountainDon the stove requires 14" clearance from combustables in the back and I'm keeping that spacing. The brick is more for thermal mass and looks. So I wouldn't think heating of the brick would be an issue would it?

Scott

[PEG688]

Seems to me then that I should add solid blocking under the wall area and maybe a couple of extra joists in this area. I'm planning on 16" centers on the floor joists so maybe I should slide 2 extras in between where the hearth is going. I like Glens idea of the header on pier blocks under the wall which straddles the main beam. [highlight]The floor joists run with the wall.[/highlight]

We always block all joist over all beams , always .  Unless it's "I" joist engineered floor system.

So your heath and wall load of bricks are right over and running with the joist?

If so I'd dbl. up the one right under the interior wall , or add a DBL. joist if one doesn't fall there, plus I'd DBL ever other joist under the hearth. That beam Glenn mentioned would be about the same.

You'll need to think about any plumbing , heating , etc , pipes that need to run in that wall as well IF you go the DBL joist way.

 If you maintain the space  of 14" to the brick you'll be find laying the brick right on the dry wall, IMO.      

[ScottA]

Thanks Peg I think thats what I'll do. I had planned on blocking between the joists over the beams already. Thanks for all the input.

Scott

[MountainDon]

Scott, that sounds perfect. You are a smarter guy than one of my neighbors!!   He did a stone faced wall in a small cabin right over the wood and plunked down an old un-rated stove a foot away.

If your stove manufacturer says 14" and you maintain that you're fine.

I'd like to see the finished work.  

[jb52761]

PEG PEG PEG.......easy there killer.....I meant that the forum over there is as efficient, or almost as efficient, as our beloved Countryplans.com.......jb

[glenn kangiser]

...but we really are a great bunch  

[MountainDon]

... some of us may be a little off plumb, but we make up for that in other endearing ways.  

[ScottA]

I go out to work on the house and come back to find you guys talking about how great this forum is and NOT how to build houses. Hummm....

By the way I hate digging pier holes. Called the power company today...they said I can have power when the foundation is done....dig...dig...dig...

Scott

[MountainDon]

I hate digging holes most of the time too.  :'(

How many holes? How big? (curious)

[ScottA]

15 holes 16x16x18"deep but so far they've ended up really being about 20x20x18"  by the time I get enough room for the blocks. Pouring 4 bags of concrete in each hole with rebar it's more work than it looks for one guy. One thing about digging holes in the woods is lots of roots. I love it!

Scott

[MountainDon]

Scott, that's about as much dirt as I'll have to dig come spring.  8 holes but twice as deep,   :'(  even more difficult with a standard man powered shovel. Roots are not as much of a bummer as large rocks are though, IMO.

I plan on having my neighbor with his small bucket back hoe attachment on his skid steer do the grunt work. I know there will be lots of roots as there are trees all over, some of which we he will first have to push over.