Dig a Well now building in 5 years ?

[fourx]

Happylogan, are water tanks inpractical in that area, in other words is the rainfall very sparse or is access  to site them a huge problem? I would forget the money outlayed so far and go with maybe a couple of rainwater tanks if it were possible.

[happylogan]

Hmm? rainwater tanks-- let me research this little nugget of information :-?  

[fourx]

Rainwater tanks are far more common than wells in rural areas down here, and I would assume that your rainfall is higher than here. We run the house and garden from a 3000 gallon galvanised iron tank- though it's more common now for tanks here to be fibreglass..they last longer, are easier to move and can be used as a tempory water source while building ( filled from a tanker, maybe) and then hooked up permanently when the house is built. They also don't have the exposure to soil residues such as pesticides used in agriculture that wells do.

[builderboy]

Often wondered about using rain water what with the talk about acid rain killing fish. I'm not a fish but.............

[glenn kangiser]

That's it "shared well agrement"!!!  I suppose who the neighbors are is important!! I might just suk it up ;Dand get my own well.
Now, I have the bug to snag a parcel in northwest GA south NC, Murphy or the Blairsville area. I called a local driller just for kicks and was told and confirmed that "on average" water is 645ft./ $15/ft plus $10/ft casement- what? so about 10k for that... just a comparison from Colorado to GA/NC.  Anyone have a build in this area?  ( off topic)

Sounds like they have to case it all the way - probably an unconsolidated formation that will cave and fill the hole unless it has a pipe in it - probably some perforation to let the water in -- casing is well pipe.

Sounds reasonable.

[glenn kangiser]

Often wondered about using rain water what with the talk about acid rain killing fish. I'm not a fish but.............

More acids are leached into the soil to decompose rock into clay in my area from Oak leaves and rain dripping through them than the "acid rain" has by itself.  I wonder a bit about that theory.  I suppose it applies in some places.

[fourx]

The main aussie concern is cattle dip sites, where very toxic chemicals were used in cattle yards to treat cattle for ticks, etc, and are still present in soil samples decades later.

[desdawg]

Is that what was called "Better living through chemistry" in the old ads? (Real old ads)

[fourx]

 ...something to be said for cows with two udders, as well.

[desdawg]

More faucets, more milk?

[John_C]

fourx..   Jonsey too if you are around


Just curious.
What are some of the details of your water collection?  Metal roof I presume?  
Do you filter it before it goes into your tank to remove debris that was on the roof or in the gutters?
How do you treat/filter the water for drinking purposes?
After your previous post I priced poly water tanks. They are relatively affordable. I found a 2500 gal tank for about $750.00 + shipping.  Cheaper than building a concrete tank, and easy to add storage capacity.

Thanks in advance.  Details of my FL system below.

My FL house had a sloped concrete roof.  I built a 3" dam with aluminum angle to direct water to 2 holes through  the roof that had 3" pvc pipes leading to the cistern.  I had coarse screens covering the pvc to keep out most of the debris.  The cistern had two chambers (~7,000 gal. ea.).  The first one was mostly a settling tank. The second was filled by runoff from the top of the first and the water pickup was about 6" above the floor of the second chamber. I only drew water from the first chamber during dry spells when the other chamber was empty. The water was run through a charcoal filter before going to the house.  3 or 4 times a year I'd dump a quart of clorox into each chamber.  Once a year or so I'd clean the chambers of silt at the bottom of each chamber. It was our only water supply.  

In some areas of FL the powers that be got control of all groundwater.  You didn't have to connect to the water line, but if you chose to use your existing well they put a meter on it and charged you just the same.  The legislature refused to grant the authority over rainwater. It wasn't theirs until it hit the ground. The cistern avoided "Imperial entanglements".

I think the same logic :-?  is coming to GA.  The water folks are running lines absurd distances.  Using the threat of drought and fear of a falling water table they will force everyone onto the pipeline. If you have a well they will put a meter on it.  I don't want to spend $10K and then have to pay their absurd prices, not to mention deal with their bureaucracy.

[glenn kangiser]

I couldn't live there - somebody would die.

[glenn kangiser]

In the San Joaquin Valley the irrigation districts control the ground water and tax you a small fee annually for using your well.  I tolerate that but that is about as far as I feel they should be allowed to go.  You pay whether you use the water or not -- even in the city.  They do have groundwater percolation basins to restock ground water.

[fourx]

John C, firstly I should point out that I did all my own plumbing, so there are no doubt fancier tank hook-up systems available..what I did was run a poly stormwater pipe off the front and back gutters, joined it in a Y under the ground and then up to the top of the tank, which is about 15 feet from the house. In the bend where it comes out of the ground to the tank inlet I put an inspection plate- just a screw-on lid, and I vent the first run of water catchment out of it, then close it up and in goes the water.
On the tank side of the house pressure pump ( a 12 volt bilge pump-I'd far more like to gravity feed but the fall is not enough to run the tankless gas hot water system) there is a filter. Works great.
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The frame around the base was for Mrs Foux to plant her honeysuckle, which has now covered the tank.

[John_C]

fourx,  
Thank You.  Cisterns are far more common in OZ than in the states and I was curious how they are done down there.  I am familiar with some in the Bahamas.  There they often are incorporated into the foundation of the house.  Think of a 4 or 5  foot crawl space full of water.  The ones I was around held 25,000+ gal.  They were almost never full and if full they provided a year or two of water.  

[happylogan]

Water=--- everyone needs it and it seems like the power that be want to control it.

[Amanda_931]

There are parts of the country where water rights (long and convoluted story that I don't know much about, except that it dates back at least a century) trump being able to collect rainfall from your roof.  Colorado is notorious.  (In Australia, though, I've gathered, mostly from looking at interesting ads, they hate runoff and erosion enough that the situation is about reversed).

But having a well drilled in an area where the water table is falling is not a good idea either.  Sara Andrews (a peculiar geologist who writes mysteries with a geological twist) wrote a book in which this was one of the themes.  Dead Dry is the name of the book.  

Falling water tables are happening in the mid-section of the country (Ogalala aquifer), might be spreading to the southeast if we are really turning dry, not just having a bad year.

[happylogan]

I was set to do the well but some questions came up that I did not get answered to my satisfaction. First, the well company needed to put in a "driveway" for their rig to get onto the property. Upon my first hand inspection last week, that is correct. The road is graded and the drop from this graded road to the actual parcel is 6ft with a pitch of say 50-60degrees. The rig with the well equipment is long- semi type deal.So, I see that some fill,etc is needed to get the rig "in there" What I did not like and has yet to be resolved is the fact that the drilling co. is just that - a well comany I see no driveway expertise, but they've done it in the past.
My driveway is my business- so for him to get his equipment in and out I'm not paying 4k for a driveway which is not even my final driveway selection spot.  Obvioulsy, the frustration was here,but logically, I need a well and if I can coordinate the location of the sited driveway with well drilling location, then I'll be okay.  One of the porblems is that there is no competition for well drillers.  This outfit is local and has dug for 30 years.  I can get a driller from outside the area but that's travel time and money.  I was not even offered a proposal for the driveway: width, length, 3/4 crushed what's the base material? grade, regrading??? what about the sloppy weather in the next 3 months? do you come back to compact and regrade? Initially, all I got was, " well, we need to put in a driveway before we can drill the well." Also, I did not know to ask about whether a power box and switch box was part of the well job.  If anyone knows other questions to put forth, please fire away.  I need to have all these in writing before I make another trip out there.  So, I'm backing off now.  I'm not used to dealing with the small town mentaility-- the way it's always been- idea.  So, I did find an outfit in the next county over and will compare costs.  The advantage i see in using the original is that he's done a couple dozen up in the parts where my spot is...if that counts for jack or not? I'll say, I have "X" dollars for the driveway take it or leave it if you want to sink my 15k well, I think we have what is known as some "wiggle room."
Bottom line: I have questions I need answered.  I will reacquire drilling proposals.  I will contact a driveway outfit for proposal and cost.  Overall, the trip was productive.
FYI: I noticed what appeared to be "squatters at the near top of the mountain.  I say squatters because two vehicles were in the proximity to the road one of which was in the trees. The other was on the road with rocks wedges under the tires.  A squatters camp was apparent. Also, noticed an RV type rig.  This has been a situation for the past 20 years before the mnt. was inhabited.  Now, with my taxes doubling and some filing subdivisions already forming HOA's the days off squatting, as I see it, are near the end the same filing that has fored the HOA is the quadrant where squatters and refuse is located. The county plows to where the county road paved section ends. This is at the base of the incline up into the mnts. The county road is about 3 miles, paved and plowed - then it's another 6 to the property- of hard packed fairly rut free driving.  I was very surprised at the quality of the road.  I understand plowing is a neighborly affair for this section.

[glenn kangiser]

A local driller will have much better knowledge of he local conditions than someone farther away.  It is worth something.  They are not prone to sharing info with other drillers usually.  I drilled for 10 years and am still a licensed driller.

[happylogan]

That makes sense.  I have no problem supporting the local economy--just don't gouge me BTW a local watering hole charges $5.50 for an import on tap :'(

[glenn kangiser]

I won't say they don't take advantage of their monopoly.  Just that they will be the ones who know what they are looking for when it comes to underground conditions, and the best way to make you a well in the local area.

It took me most of the ten years of drilling in the area I drilled in to decide that I no longer wanted to drill in one area with questionable underground conditions.   It was an area prone to collapse in the future as well as underground shifting and breaking of casing.  

[BassLakeBucki]

I am not sure where you are drilling and what the challenges of the terrain are but here is more on my experience. My well needed to be at the bottom of the hill near the lake. The drive (path) from the road was sand and narrow because of large trees on each side. The first driller I talked to said his rig would not go through there without cutting the trees. He suggested I find a driller with a smaller rig.

The company who finally did my well was a larger company and had more equipment to choose from. I am sure the price was higher too but he said he had something that would go down there without any cutting or dozing. When they arrived, I was surprised how large the rig was, a six wheel drive unit but not semi trailer like. It was tight but he got down there. When he was done I thought he would try to turn around to drive back up. He said there was no room to turn around and could back up the hill with the six wheel drive. I didn't believe he could miss the trees going backwards and not get stuck backing. To my surprise, he backed out. He got stuck at the very top but they had a second truck which pulled him up with a tow strap. He said if the truck had not pulled him up, he would have brought in their dozer to pull him out, no extra charge.

It is a shame you don't have other drillers nearby to talk with. Glen is right, local experience is valuable as they are familier with both the water and drilling conditons.

It seems most wells are in areas that are not easy access so the rigs are built for that. I don't see why they are requiring a fancy drive. Also talk to a excavator and get their take and price on the drive. For the money you are talking about, you are entitled to a written list of what you will receive. You hate to be a pain but you have to protect yourself and the driller would want to protect himself so that everyone clear on what will be provided.

[happylogan]

BassLakeBucki that makes sense. ; Excavating comp. makes sense too.  I don't want some makeshift drive he's gonna use to drill, pay 4k then have it not up to snuff. In the course of my half dozen conversations with the comp. over the course of a year, I get the feeling that they don't really need the business.  It's as if I'm getting a favor from them to put in MY well-- not the type of business etiquette I'm used to.  Ex. I needed to ask question after question rather than have them tell me upfront what they would do. I researched and got help here before I asked but still got the impression that I was intruding- strange. I was trying to not be a too aggressive but now I'm to the point where if they don't lay it ALL out, I'm shopping-- I'm a BIG fan of disclosure.
Am I uptight about this first step of the build?- HE** YES! So, if they whack a tree or two can I live with it yeah, but I'd rather not let that happen. My cost to get out there for 2 days and watch this happen is about 500$ so, one trip is enough.

I did notice a well they recently sank near my lot. It was located in the frontage- say 25feet onto the property from the road. THe cutaway was a turnaround drive that may or may nothave previously been treed.

Well, here we go again

[BassLakeBucki]

Don't let these challeges bring you down, it is all part of the process. There will be many more obstacles that you will need to find solutions for. When it is all said and done and you are sitting by you cabin enjoying the view and the peace, you will have a sense of pride knowing that what you are enjoying is a product of your own hard work. You could pay someone to take care of everything, but what fun would that be. I enjoy getting there as much as the destination. Heck, I tried to drill my own well at first. It didn't work out .... and I will be out a few hundred dollars, but I am glad I tried and for what I learned.

I can relate to trying to make arrangements from far away. My cottage is a 6 hour drive. I am lucky to have a very good friend who lives on the lake. He is my eyes and ears and mouth when I am having things done and I cannot be there. I owe him a lot ...... but we have a great time when we get together .

I am big on research and asking a lot of people a lot of questions. Some of my best solutions have come from people who are not experts, just regular do-it-yourselfers with a lot of experience and common sense. I just keep looking until I find a solution.

It is a shame your driller doesn't care about your business. Maybe it is worth looking for someone who wants to help you and make a fair profit. Sometimes neither is at fault, it is just a bad fit; he doesn't understand why you wnat to know everything and you don't understand why he won't tell you. I usually avoid those who don't care, there is always someone else who does.

Sorry about the philosophizing. Good Luck

[happylogan]

Yeah.. the first step is becoming more challenging than I pictured.. I mean dig deep, hit water, TaDA!! So, we will get everything that is important ready and checked, double checked.. But, I agree with you. It seems to be somewhat similar to the remodelI did on my first house... but family and I did it all so, the unknown X factor was eliminated.  I'm solid with this well digger.. he knows his stuff but the driveway issue  I'll have to research this from start to finish.