Forget banning Guns this could ban home gardens

[Windpower]

This bill HR875 now in committee will "regulate" all food production facilities

here is a quote 

(14) FOOD PRODUCTION FACILITY- The term `food production facility' means any farm, ranch, orchard, vineyard, aquaculture facility, or confined animal-feeding operation.


SEC. 206. FOOD PRODUCTION FACILITIES.

(a) Authorities- In carrying out the duties of the Administrator and the purposes of this Act, the Administrator shall have the authority, with respect to food production facilities, to--

(1) visit and inspect food production facilities in the United States and in foreign countries to determine if they are operating in compliance with the requirements of the food safety law;

(2) review food safety records as required to be kept by the Administrator under section 210 and for other food safety purposes;

(3) set good practice standards to protect the public and animal health and promote food safety;

(4) conduct monitoring and surveillance of animals, plants, products, or the environment, as appropriate; and

(5) collect and maintain information relevant to public health and farm practices.

(b) Inspection of Records- A food production facility shall permit the Administrator upon presentation of appropriate credentials and at reasonable times and in a reasonable manner, to have access to and ability to copy all records maintained by or on behalf of such food production establishment in any format (including paper or electronic) and at any location, that are necessary to assist the Administrator--

(1) to determine whether the food is contaminated, adulterated, or otherwise not in compliance with the food safety law; or

(2) to track the food in commerce.



if you read further a 'food production facility" must allow inspections or be fined up to $1,000,000 per DAY
the fine is exempt from judicial review

I am not making this up -- go read it for yourself

SEC. 405. CIVIL AND CRIMINAL PENALTIES.

(a) Civil Sanctions-

(1) CIVIL PENALTY-

(A) IN GENERAL- Any person that commits an act that violates the food safety law (including a regulation promulgated or order issued under the food safety law) may be assessed a civil penalty by the Administrator of not more than $1,000,000 for each such act.

(B) SEPARATE OFFENSE- Each act described in subparagraph (A) and each day during which that act continues shall be considered a separate offense.



http://www.thomas.gov/

search HR875


Forget about banning guns they are putting in place regulations that could ban you from growing food

[glenn kangiser]

I've had it.

[John_C]

In spite of legislation like this few people think we need less government. 

Almost everyone I meet want government to do something.  I want them to leave me the hell alone.

[muldoon]

This is not going to end well. 

[StinkerBell]

/sarcasm on


Picture this! A very high electric bill, people going in and out of the house at the end of the block (you know the house, yard is a wasteland and they have a high electric bill, sheesh I just mentioned the high electric bill at the beginning of this story). Lights... bright lights on all the time.

Cut to, several months later and the home is surrounded by agricultural agents. They break down the door and as suspected a home growing operation...Thats right, carrots, onions, and squash. This family is going down! They will spend years in the pokey. IF only it was a pot growing operation where they get a slap on the hand and probation.

/sarcasm off

[Pox Eclipse]

And yet again, bad legislation that will probably never make it out of committee is used as ammunition against all government regulation.  I don't understand this logic.  There are dozens and dozens of bills sent to committee every year, yet very few of them come up for a vote.  That is government working the way it should; just because some numbskull had a not-so-bright idea, doesn't mean the eeeevill government will adopt it to oppress the masses.

Deregulation is the reason we are in this recession.  If we abandon all regulation out of fear of some loony idea, we will be at the mercy of unscrupulous capitalists who are motivated by greed alone, and will stop at nothing to separate the public from their money.  I fear unrestrained business far more than I fear the government.

[Squirl]

This is a massive bill with many co-sponsors.  This will take some work.  
Here is the full text.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-875

It looks like they are trying to take food safety out of the hands of the FDA and create a Food Safety Administration.  
I think that the FDA already has this power by law. They are looking to classify it to a new department.

[Squirl]

IIRC, Just the sections highlighted in this post are already within the power of the FDA.  They have the ability to regulate and inspect all farms, ranches, processors, etc... They just don't do it.  I think they are increasing the fine.  I do not feel like going through the complete authority, power, and all FDA laws, but if anyone else would like to be my guest. 

It is like the creation of homeland security. They had legislation that they could do all sorts of crazy things.  But if you read the laws, these powers were already within the other departments FBI, CIA, DEA, INS, ICE.

[Squirl]

The parts of the legislation I dislike are that they do not differentiate food produced for public sale and private consumption.  Also
SEC. 202. REGISTRATION OF FOOD ESTABLISHMENTS AND FOREIGN FOOD ESTABLISHMENTS.

(a) In General- Any food establishment or foreign food establishment engaged in manufacturing, processing, packing, or holding food for consumption in the United States shall register annually with the Administrator.

The Bill is very large and most of the offenses I could see warranting $1,000,000 fine.  If the admin tried to levy a $1,000,000 fine on a small farm for not allowing inspections it could jeopardize their whole existence.  A court would most likely hold it unconstitutional.  (cruel and unusual)  They could also strike the law as overly broad.  This would gut the whole administration, not a likely scenario, but possible.  This legislation needs a lot of work.  I would be more concerned because it has 39 co-sponsors.

This is in response to the fact the FDA hasn't been doing their job for years.  Now people think we need a new department to not do the job.

[Windpower]

Problem:

People getting sick and dying from contaminated food.

Reaction: 

OMG WE NEED TO MAKE SURE OUR FOOD IS SAFE


Solution:

A new intrusive government beauracracy to further regulate people's lives.


This will make it easier to document how much food a family produces for their own consumption. Presumably the documentation required would have to include the basics --how much, what kind, what happened to it.

"oh I see here that you produced 50 quarts of tomatoes and 500 pounds of beef for your families consumption.  That is an imputed income of $980, and of course that is taxable income. Please declare that on your 1040 as we will prepare a 1090 for this income"       


Anyone else see a 4Th amendment problem here ?

SEC. 210. TRACEBACK REQUIREMENTS.

(a) In General- The Administrator, in order to protect the public health, shall establish a national traceability system that enables the Administrator to retrieve the history, use, and location of an article of food through all stages of its production, processing, and distribution.

(b) Applicability- Traceability requirements under this section shall apply to food from food production facilities, food establishments, and foreign food establishments.

(c) Requirements-

(1) STANDARDS- The Administrator shall establish standards for the type of information, format, and timeframe for food production facilities and food establishments to submit records to aid the Administrator in effectively retrieving the history, use, and location of an item of food.

(2) RULE OF CONSTRUCTION- Nothing in this section shall be construed as requiring the Administrator to prescribe a specific technology for the maintenance of records or labeling of food to carry out the requirements of this section.

(3) AVAILABILITY OF RECORDS FOR INSPECTION- Any records that are required by the Administrator under this section shall be available for inspection by the Administrator upon oral or written request.

(4) DEMONSTRATION OF ABILITY- The Administrator, during any inspection, may require a food establishment to demonstrate its ability to trace an item of food and submit the information in the format and timeframe required under paragraph (1).

[Squirl]

Problem:


"oh I see here that you produced 50 quarts of tomatoes and 500 pounds of beef for your families consumption.  That is an imputed income of $980, and of course that is taxable income. Please declare that on your 1040 as we will prepare a 1090 for this income"       

This is a slight misstatement of the tax code.  You only pay taxes on goods and services sold or traded.

[Windpower]

but they are going to increase taxes to pay for all those bailouts, don't you know

[tanya]

They are getting desperate now.  I think they are worried about the taxes they will not be collecting when people start feeding themselves instead of buying from the grocery.  Farmers markets are making a big come back and alternative economies aren't just for hippies anymore.  If people start taking care of themselves without the big corporate involvement that means a lot less taxes and a lot less financial gain for the millionaire members and their stock portfolios will drop dramatically.  There is an article on the front page of the Seattle papers about seed companies selling record numbers of seed.  Growing your own is one way to save a lot of grocery money and if you can sell some too and make a little spending money for bills or other necessities that is great BUT the govt.  needs that tax money to keep up their wars, and covert spying on the citizens.  This makes the perfect excuse for them to be in everyones yard, garden, home.  It's OK though I am going to keep at it because I have a great aliby the damn wild turkeys and deer eat everything here.  It is well documneted and the towns people have been up in arms about this total deriliction of deer/turkeys for years. HA

[ScottA]

It's not that far fetched for them to tax home produced food. They already have crazy income taxes. For example if you worked for a farmer and he paid you $100 dollars a week plus room and board you'd have to pay taxes on all of it even the food you ate. If he paid you with a share of the crop you'd have to sell part of it and give the money to the IRS. Now most people in a situation like this don't make enough to owe much or anything currently but all it would take is a change in the tax tables. The notion that someone who is basicly a slave could be taxed for their room and board is insane but it's very real.

On another note this regulation of food has been going on for a while. Regulations have been used to just about wipe out all family farming over the last 50 years or so. The sole purpose of wiping out farmers was to force people to move the cities and get paying jobs so they could be more easily taxed. Welfare was created for the same reason. By giving families welfare they no longer needed to work the fields and so created a labor shortage for the farmers. The end goal of all of this is to control the people.

[tanya]

AND THIS POLICY IS CLEARLY FACIST!!!

[tanya]

I hope somebody sends the names of those 39 sponsors to the news media and exposes their facist traits. 

[MountainDon]

Regardless of how jaded you may be when it comes to regulation, I believe in complaining. Complaining takes many forms. Ranting here is one and offers the quickest solution to help sooth the immediate fires of indignation. Sometimes that is all it takes to cool down a little. It's great when that suffices.


When that doesn't quite do it sometimes it's good to write to your local newspapers.


However I also believe in complaining directly to those who have been sent to DC as our representatives. There's a new help topic on this HERE

[tanya]

After further thought.  I do believe in taxing commerce.  But home gardens that are shared with family and friends are not engaging in commerce.

  Secondly IF this law was really about public safety there would be penalties that are more appropriate, like a fine of 10 percent on assetts and income, 1st offense, and double for second offense,  ON THE THIRD offense shut them down if it is REALLY about public safety.  This legislation appears to be a desperate attempt to fund a flailing govt. with perks for the corporations.  After all who else can afford million dollar fines?

My last thought is that there needs to be a FACIST WATCH cabinet post!!!  As Americans we owe it to every soldier who's grave flys the flag this memorial day and to those who have stood up proudly for the concepts of Land of the FREE and Home of the BRAVE.   

[Squirl]

  Secondly IF this law was really about public safety there would be penalties that are more appropriate, like a fine of 10 percent on assetts and income, 1st offense, and double for second offense,  ON THE THIRD offense shut them down if it is REALLY about public safety.  This legislation appears to be a desperate attempt to fund a flailing govt. with perks for the corporations.  After all who else can afford million dollar fines?

I have work in an area that deals with government fines.  The current draft of this law is written for a maximum fine for an offense.  As you noted Tanya, that is the usually implementation of the law.  Almost all criminal laws are written with a minimum and a maximum penalty and it is up to the courts and the government to decide on the fair amount.  You can read most of title 18 or the criminal code and the federal sentencing guidelines for more information.  Many fines are done by agency regulation standards rather than laws by congress, because they are easier to adapt.

[MountainDon]

This is basically a poorly crafted piece of proposed legislation. I really don't think "they" want to make it impossible to grow your own food. However, it sure would seem that if this went through the process without having the home grower for own use exempted some idiot someplace in government would try a move like Stink imagined.

If you book mark your reps info, flashing off an email about your concerns about home gardens is very easy to do.

[ScottA]

I thought it may be good for some who may not understand the government we have today. Here's a good piece to read up on the subject.

For all that, we no longer fully have what our ancestors, who framed and ratified our Constitution, thought of as freedom — a careful division of power that prevents power from becoming concentrated and unlimited. The word they usually used for concentrated power was consolidated — a rough synonym for fascist. And the words they used for any excessive powers claimed or exercised by the state were usurped and tyrannical. They would consider the modern "liberal" state tyrannical in principle; they would see in it not the opposite of the fascist, communist, and socialist states, but their sister.

http://www.sobran.com/articles/tyranny.shtml

[StinkerBell]

/sarcasm on

Cut to a scene in the pokey. Two middle aged women discussing their convictions. One lady a real hippie look to her and the other lady has the soccer mom look. The hippie lady is relaxed. SHe is making plans for the "next time" telling soccer mom she will be out in 3 months. "You see, even though I am a repeat offender, I have never served more then 3 months for growing my "herb"... Soccer mom begins to cry, I have a ten year sentence! Hippie mom, dismayed by this news, "why so long?" Soccer mom, sobs as she explains, "Well the judge wanted to make an example out of me, and when it was discovered that I was growing tomatoes and they were HEIRLOOM, it was just too much for the judge, he through the book at me"

/sarcasm off

[tanya]

Well one would think that with 39 sponsors the thing would have been wqritten clearly and precisely for those engaged in commerce, which is resonable to a point.  After all govt. has the responsiblity to regulate.  It is businesses obligation to ensure proper and safe production.  So yes by all means if a company is engaged in commerce and puts the public at risk, due to poor quality assuaance practices fine them ( a reasonable amount is ten percent of product and assetts, 20 percent for the second offense) BUT if they continue to show lack of accountability and poor sanitation practices then it is the govt. OBLIGATION to shut them down, not police them endlessly to no avail.  Quality assurance becomes a joke when the company just keeps paying fines and the govt. lets them go on and on and on like that.  BUT before they can even thhink about checking into quality assurance and use the powers to visit every garden inthe US then they should have to PROVE that there is in fact someone engaging in commerce.  Not just the little old lady who has a bunch of grandkids picking huckleberries and putting them in her freezer which is something that came up here inthe northwest, poor old grandmas with to many huckelberries had feds confiscating the contents of their freezer with no proof whatsoever they were contriband huckelberries.  That is facisim.  And every member of congress should ask themselves a simple question when they propose legislation, is this a fascist policy I am enacting? And the public MUST expose those who do implement facist policies or we will be very sorry. 

[MountainDon]

Well one would think that with 39 sponsors the thing would have been wqritten clearly and precisely...

Not necessarily. Remember they passed the porkulis bill and most if not all of them never even read it.

Also remember, just because they are congressmen/women doesn't mean they are smart.

[tanya]

I am pretty sure we are not a capitalist country anymore.  And I don't feel sorry for those banks at all, in fact I think it was a big mistake to bail them out.  After all they don't give anyone any breaks yet they think the taxpayers owe them many.  I saw over the weekend that two thirds of the senate and 40 percent of the house are millionaires.  I can't help but wonder if they are not using taxpayer dollars to ensure their investments don't fail.