Not really a topic, just a Question .....

[williet]

When the foundation is designed, if the outside is covered with rock (or something that looks like rock) how are the footer/ foundation dimensions determined?

A cement block foundation on a concrete footing covered with rock ..... do the joists overhang the foundation to make the rock and the walls come out right?


   

[Doug Martin]

I saw that on Hometime once.  It was for a poured basement but I believe they did cantelever the walls over the foundation and poured the lower foundation a bit thicker to act as a shelf for the faux rock.  You might want to check out the hometime website for more info.

[williet]

Thanks for the reply. I'll check it out some more.

[glenn kangiser]

It can also be determined by the architect and your preferences but proper support of the loads of the house would be the first concern - the rock would be gingerbread that can be dealt with in different ways.

[n74tg]

The dimensions of the footer are determined by two things; 1. the load bearing capacity of the soil beneath the foundation and 2. the amount of expected weight sitting on the foundation.  

On well compacted soil, I have seen a standard construction (wood built) house (not bricked) built on 16" wide, 8" thick footers (with two rebar runs, each 1/2" thick).  Add brick or any other heavy rock type covering and you generally increase both the thickness and width of the footer.  On sandy, non or poorly compacted soils the footer can go on up to 24" width or more and 12" or more thickness.

Code requirements for different areas often specify minimum footer dimensions.  

[williet]

Thanks,
As rock veneer on foundation locks is not at all uncommon, I thought some of you might just "know" how it is done and share a sketch. Any framers or masons out there?

In the application  on what we're thinking about, I believe the walls ( built similar to the FirstDay... sheathing and insulation board outside the framing, then the siding) will extend out enough to give the apearence that we're looking for.

Our house will be built in an area that has no "building code" requirements as such but we do hope to have a solid, well built house.

[John Raabe]

The easy way to add a rock skirt to a standard foundation is to have a "water table" detail that is flashed from behind the siding out over a beveled sill extension that covers the top of the rock. Thus the rock foundation flares at the foundation wall.

Depending on your footing depth and foundation type you may need to build a ledge into a wider wall to support this rockwork.

Of course, the suburban builders do this with manufactured stone that is put up with adhesives and doesn't need any extra foundation support. Here's our man, [highlight]Bob Villa on the subject![/highlight]

[williet]

Thanks John.

[Amanda_931]

Coronado Stone was the fake stone of choice in Middle Tennessee in the 70's.  It may have gotten better/people may have learned how to install it.  But that stuff was pretty nasty.  After a few years the colored concrete "stones" fell out, one by one.

Not very many years ago they--or a competitor--were having some quality control problems with respect to color.

So I' guess I'd be a bit prejudiced against any of them.

[glenn kangiser]

I've was on a project where they spent- probably a million dollars on this type stone - fake stone -- but after all is said and done-- no matter how much they spend -- to me it still looks fake.  :-/

[williet]

I'd rather use real stone, but the price will dictate which way we go .... However, much of the fake stone I've seen around here "looks" very good and seems to hold up well.

One brand is made in Birmingham (can't think of it now) and it looks great.

[JRR]

About "overhanging" the support wall/foundation with the joists:  Most of the resources I read indicate ... when joists support a load-bearing wall, they may extend and overhang by up to their "depth".   For example, if you are using 2x10's as joists, they may extend 9 1/4" beyond the supporting wall (block or whatever).

The same rule applies to interior upper-floor load-bearing walls that offset supporting walls beneath.

(Special framing must be used when walls are to be overhanged in a direction other than the along the joist axis.  For example, if you intend to overhang all exterior walls around a building.)

Different, more liberal, rules apply if the overhang does not support load bearing walls.

[glenn kangiser]

Some of Johns designs are cantilevered.

In reality the fake stone does look pretty good -- just very uniform.

[John Raabe]

The [highlight]"New Wonder Product"[/highlight] rule of thumb... the older it is the more a product looks like what it is made of.

Important to keep in mind when simulating one material with another. Things age based on their physical composition not what they are simulating.

Vinyl siding may look a bit like wood when new but more like chaulky plastic in 15 years. Wood, on the other hand, looks even more like wood in 30 years than it does new.

Trex looks like plastic milk bottles mushed together, and "cultured" stone looks like faded punky concrete blobs.

[PEG688]

Lets lump Hardi right into the mix  Eh guys , Or ya and gals as well. Fake is fake , if ya don't look , it all looks great And some times it even cost more