Siding Choices?

[rwalter]

Hello everyone.

I am trying to make up my mind on siding for my cabin. It is a 20x32 rear dormer design, with a A-frame style pitched roof (16/12). I been looking at vinyl board and batten siding, wood board and batten siding and 1st or second cut slab log clap board siding. I am interested in vinyl board and batten siding the most. My question is has anyone have any experience with this type of siding and how does it look?

[DavidLeBlanc]

After seeing what happens to vinyl siding in a fire (like an out of control bbq grill too near a wall), I'm inclined to stay far away from it!

Have you checked out Hardiplank? A sort of concrete product that lasts virtually forever and rarely, if ever, needs painting.

http://www.jameshardie.com/homeowner/prodhome/hardiplank.php

You might have to figure out total cost of ownership to see if, in the long run, it ends up cheaper than less expensive, but higher maintainence/shorter lived products.

[Daddymem]

More on the hazards of vinyl siding....I was planning on using it, but I'm not so sure now.
http://www.bluevinyl.org/animation.htm
and
http://www.lipmagazine.org/articles/revitalvi_179.shtml
or
http://environment.about.com/library/weekly/bldearearthtalk02-20-05.htm
but maybe Hardiplank isn't "all that" either?:
http://www.vodryshomeimprovement.com/hardie_plank.htm
If you DIY:
http://listserv.repp.org/pipermail/greenbuilding/1999-November/015623.html

If we can afford it I think we will try the cedar shingles, especially here in the salty Cape Cod air.  I've seen houses on Nantucket that take the beating and still look fine decades later.  I think second choice may be the fiberboard (probably closer to what we can afford).

[Amanda_931]

And vinyl siding looks just like vinyl siding.  Too regular, too machine made.  You can spot it hundreds of yards away.

Shingles and fire??  Might not be much if anything of a problem where you are, but out west it might be a concern.  But good grief they look nice.  

Real wood clapboards looks very New Englandy.

Slab wood--first cuts--from the sawmill looks very rustic.  It's often free for the hauling.  but unless you peel it, the bugs just love it and you'll have little piles of sawdust on the ground below the siding, says the voice of experience.  But the bark is showing no signs of falling off two years later.

Second cuts, not nearly as likely to be free, would work as very rustic looking clapboards.  Possible to match up on long runs, I'd think too.  A serious problem with first cuts that we didn't run into, because it's a teensy building.

And honest to gosh plywood T 1-11 isn't bad.  (and you don't need more sheathing underneath--see that topic)

[Amanda_931]

I just realized I don't know what part of the country you are in.

Board and batten can be done with green wood (nails on one side only).  If you can buy barnwood, it's likely to be mixed hardwoods--although I ran into pine, and it may take a couple of years of weathering to look good.  But then it does.

[rwalter]

Amanda,

The cabin I am building is in Western NY about an hour south of Buffalo. It is in Cattaraugus County near the Pennsylvania border. It's in Amish country so I am planning on checking out some of their saw mills to see what I can get in board and batten siding. I also will check out the 1st and 2nd slabs. The vinyl board and batten siding that I am interested in is manufactured by Royal Building Products. Here is a link to a picture off the siding off there website.

http://www.royalbuildingproducts.com/html/products/siding/boardbatten/gallery.html

I'd really like to see it in person though before I bought it. Fortunately there is a distributer here in Buffalo. I also thought long and hard about using T1-11 but I like the idea of the Tyvek on the outside of the sheathing and since it gets pretty cold here in the winter I like the option of installing foam insulation sheats to add to the R Value of my 2x6 walls. I also got a great deal on 4x8x1/2" CDX #1 plywood ($11.49). so its not a great huge added expense to use the plywood.

As for vinyl being a fire hazzard I guess I'll have to consider that a factor and read the links provide. Hardy panel seems out of the question for me. I got a price quoted at $500 a square. It would cost roughtly something like $10,000 just for the 20 sq or so that I would need. I have already purchased the windows, doors, lumber and roofing materials for for right around $10,300 so I find it hard to spend that much on siding. (Cabin size 20x32 1 1/2 story; materials being used 2x12 Doug Fir floor joists, 2x6 walls, 2x10 rafters, 3/4 T&G Plywood subfloor, architectural shingles, ect.....) I am planning on breaking ground this month if I can get the contractor I have in mind to dig the crawl space foundation out on time. He has been dragging his feet getting back to me. I used him  to level the property and his work and reputation are great but he is really busy and hard to get a hold off. I have got a mason ready to install the cinder block crawl space foundation as soon as is dug but were both waiting on this other contractor.  

[jonsey/downunder]

Hi rwalter.
I think the folk who gave you the quote on the Hardie plank have probably made a mistake with that price. If we are talking about the same stuff, Hardie, plank smooth retails for 15.65 a length in Australia. (230mm x 4.2mters) That is around $1.51 a sq. foot. I would imagine that the price in the US would be around the same. It may be worth your while to check with another supplier.
Have a look at the link below to see if we are talking about the same stuff.

http://www.jameshardie.com.au/Products/Weatherboards/HardiPlankCladding/default.htm

jonesy

[vojacek]

we're in texas and just bought 350- 8.25"x12' hardiplank $5 each. $1750 total. this amount will cover the outside of the 2 story universal and we're hoping to have some left for a small pumphouse.

[vojacek]

btw, we choose hardi because we have it on our existing house and love it. my husband can install it without help, and if you're careful, you don't even need a nail gun. it comes primed, so it uses little paint compared to wood.  and our once wood frame house is now rated by our insurance company as brick. AND...it's cheaper than wood right now.

[Okie_Bob]

Looks like my buddy from down under has already debunked the pricing myth about Hardi Board. I did a lot of checking prior to going with Hardi and I found Hardi by far the best choice here in TX, at least. The fact that termites won't bother it is worth as much as the fire protection and paint adhearing capability in my book. Fantastic material all around and I could not be happier with it.
Only problem I've found it that it's tough to get rid of it. Won't burn or rot..have to bury the dang stuff!
(Good to see you Jonsey!!)

[Daddymem]

Thanks for the info rwalter.  There is a distributor of the vinyl board and batten right down the street from where I work.  I'll try to stop by sometime to check the stuff out, maybe find a house with it on.

[John_M]

Hey there Rwalter,

This is John_M.  I am also building a cabin in the Southern Tier.  It is actually being framed by some Amish builders from Belfast.

The builder has his own lumber mill, I can put you in contact with him if you would like.  Feel free to send me an e-mail (just click on envelope under my name).  We can talk more about things then.  Hope to hear from you soon!!

[Mo]

I spoke with a local contractor today about Hardiplank, he thinks it is great but!! His insurance will not let them install it because of the exposure to the dust during cutting and cleanup. We were thinking of using it for our cabin, yet I am weary now. Have any of you heard this?

[jonsey/downunder]

James Hardie recently moved their company headquarters from Australia to the EU because of compensation claims on their asbestos products. They are liable for huge payouts over these products. The new stuff does not contain any of that. Dust, is a problem, depending on how you cut it. This is easily overcome by wearing a mask and safety gear when working with it. There are a number of ways to cut Hardie board. You can use a masonry blade (lots of dust) the Hardie blade is a toothed blade made for cutting this product and it can be scored and snapped (not so much dust) There is also a guillotine. Best bet is to go to their website and download the tech manuals for the product you are using. As long as you take reasonable precautions, the product is believed to be safe.
jonesy

http://www.jameshardie.com.au/Products/Weatherboards/HardiPlankCladding/TechManual/

[JRR]

Additional info on James Hardie:
.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/Business/Asbestos-weighs-on-James-Hardie-profits/2005/05/16/1116095886833.html?oneclick=true

[Amanda_931]

I gather, no more asbestos.  But it sounds like it was used surprisingly recently.

(Of course I can remember one of my cousins having a piece of asbestos and handing it to me.  Many  years ago.)

[Jimmy C.]

 Our once wood frame house is now rated by our insurance company as brick.  

Does anyone have any info about this?
I couldn't find anything in the hardi-board site about insurance benefits.
What is the cost difference for the insurance?

Anyone?

I guess I could just call my insurance company.
But they only want me to upgrade every time I talk to them...

[Amanda_931]

call a different insurance agency?

One of my insurance guys is really pretty good about homeowners' rates and what drives them.   (the other company has the same name, no relation, as far as they know, and are kind of a holdover from when I lived in Nashville)

[Shelley]

It's not used for siding around here...in the land of stucco.  Used mainly for trim, soffits, facia and the like.

But since it's a cementious product, image the rates would be cheaper than wood siding.  If yours doesn't offer a discount, I'd shop around.  Guess the real benefit is the lack of cracking, splitting, checking, and the fact that apparently it holds paint for a very long time.

I've only seen pics of it used as clapboards, but it seems very life-like.  Guess it's a bear to cut.  Blade that works is $50 and the dust requires a mask.  Some people have started to use a shear that takes longer but no dust.

Check over at Breaktime on Finehomebuilding.com.
Questions asked and answered all the time.

[John Raabe]

I expect that any insurance rating differences for cement board siding are very local and would only apply to areas where fire claims are high. While it certainly won't fireproof a house, it can, under certain situations (quick moving brush fires being the best example) allow the house a longer exposure before materials under the siding catch fire. The same can be said for stucco and brick and I expect there is testing information on fire spread ratings for all the different siding materials.

Cement siding (James Hardie is the leader in this field - http://www.jameshardie.com/homeowner/prodhome/default.php) is enjoying great popularity these days. Especially in areas of the country where most new houses use other manufactured siding products such as pressboard wood fiber, vinyl or aluminum. When compared to these options it has advantages.

When compared to real wood sidings such as cedar the choices are more often based on economics or aesthetics.

Real wood siding looks and wears like real wood and only real wood can be stained to get the "weathered-in" look that many cabins and cottages aspire to.

Cement siding looks and wears like cement panels and the longer it is up the more it will look like what it is. This is also true or vinyl and aluminum siding. Nothing wrong with that — when it is used honestly. Unfortunately most of the siding products available are imprinted impostors of wood sidings rather than honest representations of the material they are made from.

Cement sidings take paint very well are are lower maintenance than wood. They are unpleasant and difficult to cut as was mentioned earlier. The smell of fresh cut cedar is missed by many production builders who now fight concrete dust when they side houses.

If you want a painted house with a uniform exterior siding pattern, cement board siding (installed by an experienced subcontractor) is a good choice.

Aside **********************************

If you were to design an honest siding material using the same cement based materials used for fake wood siding what would you have?

I think you would side the house with thin cement shingles much like roofing slates. These could be pressed into a limited set of patterns and then randomized when installed. The slates could be dusted with or have subtle colors added to the final pressing much as concrete finishers now do for colored slabs. Thus these slates could be installed without painting.

I don't know of any manufacturers doing exactly this but here are some threads on the topic of fiber cement slates and shingles:
• http://www.oldhousejournal.com/magazine/2005/may/sense.shtml
• http://www.askthebuilder.com/327_Fiber_Cement_Siding_-_Alive_Well_and_Flourishing.shtml

[Daddymem]

Around here Certainteed is the brand most common:
http://www.certainteed.com/CertainTeed/Homeowner/Homeowner/Siding/prodindex/fibercement/Shapes-Lap-Vertical.htm

Like Hardie they have shingles, horizontal lap, stucco, vertical, soffit and trim pieces.

[Greenbank]

The house we're living in now has cement shake roofing and cement shingle siding. It's reasonable convincing and pleasent to look at...but it is still an imitation of something else.

I think stained concrete that is clearly concrete is a very good looking material and would make a nice choice.

The roof is fragile, though...no walking on it!

[John Raabe]

Daddymem:

That Certainteed link offers some of the best looking options I have seen. Below is stained cement siding? It certainly looks good in the photo!

[Daddymem]

That's what I been trying to say....and I haven't seen the board and batten on a house, but the sample pic looks like it might be a good choice for the universal....all the detail of your layout, even the shingles (nice rounded ones maybe) up top can be done in certainteed.  I am sure when you walk right up on it, it wouldn't look like wood, but I bet it is worth it when you don't even think about maintenance much...

[Shelley]

It does look good, very good.  That's the kind of pics I've been seeing the last few years.

Betcha the rocks are real either.