Secret Iranian nuke facility?

[NM_Shooter]

I see that obama and sarkozy are threatening Iran.  What an intimidating pair.  I suspect things will come  to a head fairly soon though.  I heard through the grapevine that we recently exported some very serious ballistic bunker penetrators to Israel.

[glenn kangiser]

Not secret... more BS to get us into a war with another country we want the resources from as well as to do Israel's bidding.... or at least that is what they would like if we fall for it - or the US citizens allow it.

Bad music - good message.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc0iLL8pZ0M&feature=player_embedded#t=14

Israeli's refuse inspections of their nuke facilities.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbjgDERSuiI

..but they are our allies.... that is why we have about 60 dual Israeli citizens running our government and our politicians pretty well swear allegiance to Israel.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1085619.html

[Windpower]

There you swallowing the lies from the media and our President


http://america-hijacked.com/2009/09/29/another-war-in-the-works/


The faciliy was not 'secret' at all. Iran told the IAEA about it in compliance with the international laws that are enforced on signatories to the Nuclear Non-proliferation agreement

Israel with its 100 to 300 nuclear war heads has never signed the NNPA and has refused to allow instection of the Dimona and other facilities.

[glenn kangiser]

"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."  - Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001

[waggin]

"Meet the new boss; same as the old boss."  -The Who from "Won't Get Fooled Again"  Anyone else see the irony there?

The first nuclear detonation in the Middle East will almost certainly be an Israeli weapon, with US material, sourced either by theft or freely but illicitly given. 

*I have nothing against those of Jewish faith.  As with any theocracy though, combining religion and government always brings out the worst in both.

[Squirl]

Gleen,I don't usually see that quote outside of white supremacist websites.  Probably because it was made up.  Now don't get me wrong, Sharon could be a horrible person sometimes.  This was originally reported by the Islamic Association for Palestine.  This was supposedly said during in interview on the radio, but no audio file or video has ever been seen by anyone. 

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=21&x_article=373

The reason I don't find it credible is that not a single person that has ever stated this existed will verify they were the ones that heard it.

Waggin, as a member of the Jewish faith, thank you.  I have many friends that are Israeli.  Israel was supposed to be founded as a secular Jewish state. As with all democracies Israel struggles with how to keep religion of the majority (75% Jewish) out of government.  It swings over the years between leftist and religious right governments.  Ariel Sharon was one of the farthest right. 

Besides Israel is 20% Muslim.  The growth rate of the Muslim population is almost triple that of the Jewish population.  In the next 1-2 generations it will become a Muslim country.

[MountainDon]

 Probably because it was made up.  

Thanks for that insight Squirl.




And a note on Israeli / US dual citizenship.  Israel is unique in that it is the only country in the world, as far as I know that makes it extremely easy for any person of the Jewish faith to become a citizen of Israel, no matter what other country they have citizenship claims to. In other words any person, born in the USA or to a US parent, and of the Jewish faith, can become an Israeli citizen and not break any US laws.

The US Constitution makes no note of dual citizenship for US citizens, neither pro or con.

To me, whether or not a person has dual citizenship does not matter. There have been many cases through where a bona fide, native born US citizen has committed treasonous acts against the USA. Loyalty to one's country, native born or adopted, is more a frame of mind, or a part of their character, in my opinion.

There are some if's, ands, buts, and maybe's concerning the question of dual citizenship and the USA, but it is not impossible to be a dual.

[Squirl]

I am not perfectly familiar with Israeli law.  I do know that it is similar to the U.S. in that if you are citizen and you are born abroad to either parent that is a citizen, you hold dual citizenship.    To my understanding this holds true for Britain and Canada.  Don you could probably speak better to that than I.  I don't know how successive generations work, being that the country is only 50 years old and there could usually be only 2-3 natural born generations of Israeli citizenship.

[glenn kangiser]

Thanks for the comments, Squirl.  

I'm not a supremacist and have many probable relatives buried in the Jewish cemeteries in Lithuania but have seen that quote for years.

It was/or is my assumption that most Israeli's are white? but color doesn't matter to me.  The type of person one is matters to me ie: a good person as opposed to a criminal - thief -etc.

As far as dual citizens go though - I think when it comes down to it, they will chose one or the other master when faced with a choice and will not be able to swear to put the United States first.  Can't be a slave to two masters, therefore should not hold our important offices.

[Windpower]

"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."  - Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001

This has been widely quoted on many websites ( I never read 'white supremacist' or 'anti-semetic' websites)

I have never seen a rebuttle that Sharon did not say this anywhere.

I even checked snopes -- nothing

do you have a backup for your assertion, Squirl ?

[Pox Eclipse]

This has been widely quoted on many websites

I tremble for the Republic when this suffices for evidence.  If it is so widely quoted, you will have no problem posting only one cite that is from a reputable website, and not a blog or messageboard that is simply parroting Stormfront fabrications.

To suggest that we must prove it false flies in the face of the rules of debate.  The burden of proof lies on those who make extraordinary claims.  Post a reputable reference that this is a factual quote; otherwise, it never happened.

Here is one page that debunks this false quote:

Take for example, the following quote (found on anti-Israel Web sites) alleged to have been said by Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to the Israeli parliament in October 2001 and reported on Kol Yisrael radio:

Don't worry about American pressure on Israel, we, the Jewish people control America, and the Americans know it.

The statement also appears as "I control America."

As it turns out, it is a hoax. Sharon never made either statement. Nor did Kol Yisrael ever report that he did.

Yet syndicated columnist Georgie Anne Geyer wrote in her May 10, 2002 opinion column, which appeared in the Chicago Tribune, San Diego Tribune, and other newspapers:

In fact, it [American support for Israel''s actions] led Prime Minister Sharon to tell his Cabinet recently, "I control America."

Where did this quote originate and how did it enter the mainstream media?

CAMERA's investigation found that it started with an October 3, 2001 press release from the pro-Hamas group, IAP – the Islamic Association for Palestine, which attributed the quote to a report on "the Israeli Hebrew radio, Col [sic] Yisrael."

In fact, Kol Yisrael political correspondent Yoni Ben-Menachem, who reports on Cabinet meetings, confirmed to CAMERA that he never made such a broadcast and that Sharon never made such a statement. Nor was it reported by any other news service.

When confronted, Geyer told one editor that she relied on two anonymous Israeli sources for the quotation. She told a second editor the quote came from an alleged Ha'aretz article which she never produced and could not be found. A subsequent editor's note by Geyer's United Press Syndicate claimed the quote was widely reported in the Palestinian press (i.e. the IAP, which cited the bogus Kol Yisrael source) but could not be confirmed by independent sources.

Indeed for many, the Internet has completely replaced libraries, reference books, and original research as a source of information. This reliance on unregulated, unaccountable sources has boosted the proliferation of misinformation and bogus quotes. And when they are repeated by journalists, albeit those with radical anti-Israel agendas, few are willing to search deeper.

The CAMERA staff has researched many of the alleged quotes. Part I of our series on misquotes examines quotes that fall into three categories: 1) fabricated; 2) misattributed and 3) taken out of context.

FABRICATED

[rick91351]

I tremble for the Republic when this suffices for evidence.  If it is so widely quoted, you will have no problem posting only one cite that is from a reputable website, and not a blog or messageboard that is simply parroting Stormfront fabrications.

To suggest that we must prove it false flies in the face of the rules of debate.  The burden of proof lies on those who make extraordinary claims.  Post a reputable reference that this is a factual quote; otherwise, it never happened.

Pox on so many issues you and I are direct opposites of each other.  However on that one you and I line up.  OMG I have agreed with a Lib not only a Lib but a Liberal North Easterner.

I think I may need to put my whole laptop in the dishwasher this morning.  Alas but what has the world become?

rlr 

[Windpower]

CAMERA is a Zionist website -- you're going to have to come up with something better than that

Here is one news Report that is dated ony a few days after Sharon made the statement -- it is a UK news site

http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/01/10/Sharon3.html


this appears to be the original source I think


http://www.wrmea.com/html/newsitem_s.htm

[glenn kangiser]

I will say there my not be sufficient evidence to absolutely prove it did happen, however I will also say that there is not sufficient evidence to prove it didn't happen.

Many times things like this are said but without hard evidence there is no proof other than hearsay from the ones who heard it.  That doesn't mean they are lying.  They probably only fear retribution.

After the one who spoke it thinks better of it or is counseled to deny it, then it is said to have not happened.

"I didn't have sexual relations with that woman."   See -- it didn't happen.   

[Pox Eclipse]

CAMERA is a Zionist website -- you're going to have to come up with something better than that

Here is one news Report that is dated ony a few days after Sharon made the statement -- it is a UK news site

http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/01/10/Sharon3.html


this appears to be the original source I think


http://www.wrmea.com/html/newsitem_s.htm

So you are suggesting a website that quotes the Independent Palestinian Information Network ?   

Glenn, I do not need proof that something didn't happen.   I cannot prove there are no green men on Mars.  But it would be silly to promote that idea simply because I cannot disprove it.

We had plenty of proof Bill got a knobber; that's the whole point.  Don't just take someone's word for anything.  Trust, but verify!  I can't believe I just quoted Ronnie Reagan.

[Windpower]

So you are suggesting the CAMERA website  ?   


The Zionist CAMERA website is the only source that I could find that refutes Sharon's statement

nothing on SNOPES either

[Pox Eclipse]

So we are back to where we started; you don't believe CAMERA, and I don't believe the Independent Palestinian Information Network.

You still need a credible primary source.  Otherwise, it didn't happen.

[glenn kangiser]

Dang it, Pox.  We didn't see him.

"It's all good."  BC... hearsay from Monica as I recall....

[Squirl]

Sorry I have been away for a few days.  I find both sources for and against that quote to be severely and openly biased.  I have come across this quote many times before. It is usually the trigger for less than civil comments afterword.  If anyone needs proof, they can type the quote into Google.  Almost half of the websites that came up in the first twenty were blocked by my filter as racist or hate speech.  Because of the extreme inflammatory nature of the quote, (Jews controlling America) I try to point to the credibility of the source when it is reprinted. 

As far as the demographics of israel, only half of the Jewish population is white.  The rest are from the middle east, Africa, and Asia.  And with only 75% percent of the population being Jewish, whites are actually are not the majority.

[glenn kangiser]

Thanks, Squirl.  I was just wondering as I haven't been there.

[sparks]

Personally, I don't believe it's a big secret who has nuclear technology or the bomb.

I'm more concerned about how they use it....and for what purpose.....

...and when

"Knowledge is a deadly friend in the hands of fools"





sparks