Glenn's Underground Cabin Update

Started by glenn kangiser, January 30, 2005, 10:24:03 PM

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glenn kangiser

Looks like I will have to do it soon - the new cylinder is too strong to manually return without heat. d*
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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glenn kangiser

[idea] I designed the parabolic reflector to use a 6 inch stainless stove pipe a friend gave me.  About 18" of material when opened up.

This will be a solar trough - length as desired.......... all rays of the sun will hit the focal point by using this shape.  The gas pipe will be centered at the focal point.  It will be like burning an ant with a magnifying glass.  [shocked]



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glenn kangiser

Found my best Stainless stove pipe was 8" so changed to this parabola to use all of the material with allowance for a broke stiffener angle along the edges.  [waiting]



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ScottA

Glenn do you have a permit for this?

glenn kangiser

US Constitution and Bill of Rights.... I haven't voided any of them yet... UCC 1-207 All Rights Reserved [waiting]
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ScottA

Looks like you're planning to contact ET.  d*  rofl

glenn kangiser

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glenn kangiser

...but I don't mind meeting ET if necessary ... no need to rush it though.. :)
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ben2go

HOLY COW!There's a lot of info contained in this thread.I started reading as much as I could, as often as I could, when I joined this forum.When I post this I will be temporarily caught up.

OK ok I know,get on with it.

Thanks for starting this thread Glen.It's mind blowing what 1 man can do,with little help.I'm happy to hear everyone made it through the fires OK.That's some scary stuff.We recently had a fire here,but nothing like that.The inspector(goat) will live on through this thread.

The girlfriend and our children are looking to break away from the gov and utilities.We wanna be self reliant without even needing to leave our home.We're looking for some acreage in our area.I own property but it's just a half acre with a tin shack(house trailer and hate'em).Your thread and Mike's website has given us some great ideas.We decided we'd like to build and in ground house like pictured on Mike's site.You know the one.Looks like a hill with green vegitation and windows growing out of it.  :D

Thanks to everyone for sharing on Glen's thread.

Sorry for the interuption.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled program.  :-X  ;D 


glenn kangiser

#1209
Welcome to the Underground Command Center , ben2go. w*

Coming to you straight from an undisclosed location deep within the bowels of the Underground Complex, I just wanted to thank you for your comments and observations. :)

I woke up at 4AM this morning to Susie barking because she is tied up and can't get in on the fight. [waiting]

I heard all kinds of racket on the surface in the shop, so I threw on a few clothes, grabbed the Mossberg 12ga and pumped a round of 00 buck into the chamber.

Snarling, growling, squealing and gurgling were going on in the corner of the shop.  Boxes and tools were being overturned and shoved around as Dolly and Spike were tearing up the place. [scared]

Dolly, the neighbors dog had her back toward me actively attacking something. 

Princeless of Denial, our border collie/Queensland mix and Susie's sister was running around giving moral support, but the hero of the show, Spike, our 75 to 80 lb mountain of iron and steel cable, American Bulldog, and one of the nicest dogs around, had the animal nailed to the ground -- no need for the shotgun here.  These dogs had the situation under control.

When I got close enough to see what was going on I was able to see that the intruder was a raccoon.  The little suckers are cute to look at but a viscous mix of cuteness, claws and razor sharp teeth.  I would not have wanted to be Spike.  I could not have been Spike.  I would have been shredded.

Pouncing, bouncing, crunching, smashing, and shaking, his bulldog grip rendered the intruder lifeless.  Dolly was right there on the other end of the coon.  There was no stopping them until the deed was done.

If I had not been harassed by coon invasions for the last couple of years I would have felt sorry for it, but after having things torn up, eaten, cat nearly shredded by them, garbage strewn,  eggs stolen, turkeys killed, all I can say is, Good Dogs.  Thanks. :)
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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Dog

Dogs ROCK! They are great. I feel for the coon, but you do what you have to and your dogs were on duty!

ben2go, yes the building inspector does live on! (Goat) This site is full of genius, humor and good people. It took me forever to get through this thread and I am astonished every time I check in. I'm working through others and all are so interesting and inspiring. Good Luck!
The wilderness is a beautiful thing for the soul. Live free or die.

glenn kangiser

#1211
I assume the coon was there to get the wild cat's cat food... we have a couple outside hunters that won't come too near and they eat rats, mice and gophers I'm pretty sure but we need to leave food out for them for when hunting isn't so good.  The coons have also destroyed our garden before so it is best that they are gone.

I stayed up after the coon incident and after forum, I started on the parabolic wake-up unit for the solar tracker.

I laid out the parabola forms on 1" plywood per the last layout above, and cut them out with the reciprocating saw.



I then took the stainless stovepipe and with a thin abrasive saw in the Ryobi grinder I split it down the side next to the seam.  After that I broke a 1/2 inch angle along the edge then another 1 1/2 inch angle 90 degress appx.  this made a very strong but light angle reinforced edge.  You could do it by sandwiching between two boards and tapping with a hammer if you wanted - it would work.

I trimmed the beading at the ends to make it a bit shorter than 3' for mounting on the 3' long,  1/2 dia pipe that was to be at the focal point of the parabolic trough.



I fastened the stainless metal to the parabola forms that I made from the plywood, then stood it up, aimed it at the sun and checked the focus of the trough.  As you can see on the white paper, the focus is right at about 3 1/3 inches as it should be per design.  The shape of the parabolic trough is such that all the sun's rays hitting it's 18" width x 32" length, are focused on the bottom and sides of the 1/2 inch propane pipe.

This should quickly boil the propane giving us a fast pressure rise in the propane tube that powers the return side of the hydraulic cylinder.



I next made the mounts from some light galvanized channel I had and welded them to the pipe, centered it on the trough at the 3 1/3 inch focal point, made  and installed the liquid and gas pressure hoses.



I next hung the wake-up trough assembly on the east side of the tracker below the main heat tube.  I connected the bottom hose to the liquid side of the propane tube along with the valve and pressure gauge.  I lightly purged the system - let it leak a few seconds to get most of the air out... then opend both valves to put the bypass to the trough into the system.





As you can see, pressure differential between the two tubes is what drives the hydraulic cylinder to track the sun.  Pulling the solar  trough into the sun, I was able to raise the pressure in just a few minutes and rotate the panels and the tracker into the sun.





Today I had to pull the trough into the sun to focus as I was late.  The trough goes out of focus as soon as or maybe before rotation is complete.  It is gravity focused in that it is hanging down under it's own weight.  After I primarily set the angle of the trough, it should be aligned each day.  Checking tonight, it had come into focus as good as possible without the sun being there to work with.  I'll fine tune the focus in the morning.

I'm hoping for  a short time - maybe 10 minute return to the east in the morning.  That will get me the most power rather than waiting for the tube to warm up without assistance - a few hours. Not so good.  Lots of power being lost.  I must stop Uncle Sam from getting my power....  [waiting]
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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glenn kangiser

Morning sun came and went.  I had my movement but it stopped too quickly. [waiting]

Problems with my design:

The trough must be focused for a longer period of time.  Fins on the 1/2 inch pipe for gathering heat will retain the focus longer.  Probably epoxied to the pipe vertically top and bottom for best heat transfer - or brazed if I take it off and vent it.

Refrigerant propane is a bit low from adding the trough so I need a bit more charge on this side.  Pressure stops building as the level gets to the bottom of the 1/2 inch pipe.

I need a reaction arm - parallelogram style to keep the tube in focus and need to orient it so that the focus goes out as the tracker moves into place.  Keeping it a bit less distance on the inner end - say 16 inside end to 18 outside end may work.  out for now.  [idea]
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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PEG688

Quote from: glenn kangiser on January 18, 2009, 12:05:31 PM


  #1: Morning sun came and went. 

  #2: I had my movement but it stopped too quickly. [waiting]

  #3: Problems with my design:


#1: Yes thats a normal sequence. :)

#2: Reporting on your BM's is a bit to much info. Maybe a laxative would help with the waiting or a stool softener!  ???

#3: To many to report on I'm sure. d*

  Glad I could help  c*

   
When in doubt , build it stout with something you know about .


glenn kangiser

Dang it, PEG.  d* d* d*

1. I was referring to my time window to work on the focus of the wake-up solar trough heater.  :o

2. Not my morning coffee dump.  gottogo   [noidea'   I was referring to movement of my solar tracker. heh

3. I thought I listed them all. [slap]

You help others but you didn't help me.   :(   ........I feel slighted [waiting]
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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PEG688



   How about a little somthin fer the effort ?    ;)
When in doubt , build it stout with something you know about .

glenn kangiser

Always a pleasure to get your honest opinion, PEG.  :)

Will you be posting it? [noidea'

I spent the day breaking things... I have to go work on it a bit so I can tell Whitlock I did something when I go over there for supper. [waiting]  :)
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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glenn kangiser

The bailing wire is gone from the solar tracker - some of it anyway.  d*

Isn't the internet amazing.... Scott and PEG can pick on me from halfway across the United States -- within seconds of each other too. [noidea'

Due to that I was motivated to drag out my box of zip ties and tie my wires up this time.... before pix.  [waiting]



I took more pictures for those who may want to attempt building one of these.  The solar trough wake-up mechanism is a new invention by me as far as I know.  I have put it together from others ideas but I have never seen it used in this manner before.

Here is the East end of the focus arm that positions the trough so it will be ready for the morning sun.  As the sun sets in the West the arm will cause the solar trough to be focused on the sun in the East, ready to rotate the tracker into position to catch the maximum amount of sun for the entire day.



It attaches at a similar distance from the pivot point on the trough.  I have changed from having it wired on for testing purposes to angle brackets with a hinge point.  I put washers between the wood and the angle bracket to reduce friction.  I use self drilling fasteners for most of my projects like this when I can -- saves time and always ready to go.  Here is the west end where it attaches near the cylinder.



Here is a shot looking down the entire length of the arm from where it attaches to the cylinder mount all the way to the trough.



Here is a view of the entire back of the tracker showing the relationship of everything to each other.



I added another tee and valve for adding more propane to the tracker and wake-up tubes without losing what I already had in there.  Refilling can be done under pressure just like on a  car air conditioner. 



I added a swivel at the top also so I can just loosen it from the hose to purge vapor as the tube fills with liquid.  Once liquid propane starts dripping out I tighten the swivel until the leakage stops.  Fittings for this get a bit expensive but they are necessary. 

Savings are hard to calculate exactly.  If I bought the tracker it would have probably cost $5000 or more installed with the special wake-up, except that no one makes it that way.  Some have electric trackers - not sure on cost of them. 

If we bought an equivalent amount of panels to equal the increased amount of power gained from this tracker we would have likely had to spend $15,000 to $20,000

Here is a shot with the wind generator in the background.  Had to lay on my back for that one. :)




"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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ben2go

If I understand this correctly,the arm attached to the wake up unit,pulls it out of the sun,as the tracker turns to follow the sun.OK little better description.The arm holds the wake up unit,as it tracks the sun,the wake up unit hinges back,to keep it out of the sun.Is this basicly how the mechanics of the system works?I understand how the propane heating up moves the tracker,I just wanna make sure that I understand the wake up unit.Keep us up dated on this.I may invest in something along these lines.  [cool]

glenn kangiser

In the morning the tracker is facing the west from the evening before.  The arm will keep the trough focused immediately in the morning and continue to keep it focused for a longer period of time as the tracker rotates into place, so as the tracker rotates toward the east in the morning and the sun moves toward the west, it stays focused on the trough pipe. 

As the sun continues west across the sky (or earth rotates east if you prefer), it will exceed the focus of the trough but by then the tracker is already rotated and the main tubes take over keeping the tracker focused for the rest of the day.  How much time in focus is variable by the location of the mounts of the arm.  The inside one (screw in the end of the arm near the hydraulic cylinder) will cause more rotation as it is moved away from the tracker pivot point or less movement as it is moved closer to the hinge point.

I am still finding a few issues with morning focus and it looks like afternoon, the west main tube may be a bit short on refrigerant (propane), causing it to be a little short on afternoon rotation.  As the propane amounts are increased then so are system pressures to be dealt with by the other side.  Seems to be a bit of a balancing act but it is working.

There seems to be no problem with excess focus time - the propane continues to turn from liquid to gas increasing pressure until it is turned to gas clear to the bottom of the trough.  Of course as it goes out of focus then it condenses back to liquid and is ready to do it over again.  Somewhere in the middle the two sides balance out near centered on the sun for the rest of the day.

So seems I have found more variables to experiment with but I hope to nail it all down and report it here.  It is working -- I'm fine tuning yet though.  A week of stormy overcast weather and rain have slowed experimentation for now.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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glenn kangiser

Just read that grid power was down in Mariposa again yesterday.  Sorry - I failed to notice. d*

however, I do have to admit that the long storms like this one make me turn the generator on.  Haven't wired the new batteries in yet.  Cables to make - room to clear and rearrange the batteries in preparation for improving the battery room
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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glenn kangiser

Just got back from picking up 8 Trojan L16 batteries.  They were listed on Freecycle by a friend.  I seldom look at it but I did today and she had just listed them. 

They are sulfated  a bit but i'm also working on a dealership for battery desulfators with MikeyB, so maybe I can rejuvenate them.  If not they will at least cover costs for scrap price.  Her husband said they were a bit over 3 years old.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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ben2go

Quote from: glenn kangiser on January 22, 2009, 06:57:03 PM
In the morning the tracker is facing the west from the evening before.  The arm will keep the trough focused immediately in the morning and continue to keep it focused for a longer period of time as the tracker rotates into place, so as the tracker rotates toward the east in the morning and the sun moves toward the west, it stays focused on the trough pipe. 

As the sun continues west across the sky (or earth rotates east if you prefer), it will exceed the focus of the trough but by then the tracker is already rotated and the main tubes take over keeping the tracker focused for the rest of the day.  How much time in focus is variable by the location of the mounts of the arm.  The inside one (screw in the end of the arm near the hydraulic cylinder) will cause more rotation as it is moved away from the tracker pivot point or less movement as it is moved closer to the hinge point.

I am still finding a few issues with morning focus and it looks like afternoon, the west main tube may be a bit short on refrigerant (propane), causing it to be a little short on afternoon rotation.  As the propane amounts are increased then so are system pressures to be dealt with by the other side.  Seems to be a bit of a balancing act but it is working.

There seems to be no problem with excess focus time - the propane continues to turn from liquid to gas increasing pressure until it is turned to gas clear to the bottom of the trough.  Of course as it goes out of focus then it condenses back to liquid and is ready to do it over again.  Somewhere in the middle the two sides balance out near centered on the sun for the rest of the day.

So seems I have found more variables to experiment with but I hope to nail it all down and report it here.  It is working -- I'm fine tuning yet though.  A week of stormy overcast weather and rain have slowed experimentation for now.



It's all becoming so clear to me now.  d*






Quote from: glenn kangiser on January 23, 2009, 04:55:08 PM
Just got back from picking up 8 Trojan L16 batteries.  They were listed on Freecycle by a friend.  I seldom look at it but I did today and she had just listed them. 

They are sulfated  a bit but i'm also working on a dealership for battery desulfators with MikeyB, so maybe I can rejuvenate them.  If not they will at least cover costs for scrap price.  Her husband said they were a bit over 3 years old.


Super find.I love Trojan batteries.That is all I use to use in my floor scrubbers and carpet cleaning machines.My charger had a setting to desulfate(?) the batteries.I saved six 6V batteries with that charger.they had been neglected for 5 or 6 years.I had to add some electrolite solution to them.

glenn kangiser

#1223
Glad I could clear that up a bit.  Any other questions, feel free to ask.

The desulfators are great.  I bought a couple small ones and brought a couple batteries back - a gell cell - added water to it to, and a Jeep battery - looks like it is good now.

The ones I am trying to get set up with will do up to 12 batteries at once.  The military uses them also so we know they are good.

I hooked up my eight new Interstate batteries tonight, using copper buss bars.  1/16 x 1" copper 8.5" long.  I used about 1 1/4" bars for the center between the two groups of 4 - I am running 24 volts.  If I can bring the Trojans back, we will have 28 L16 batteries in our bank. [shocked]

I equalized the old batteries with the welder monitoring voltage.  I brought them up at around 100 amps until the voltage got to 30.4 and kicked the inverters off.  From there I assumed the inverters would stay off and handle a bit more voltage - the regulator was good up to 35 volts so I figured the inverters were OK if I eased them up toward 32 volts.  It seemed that each time I got to 31.2 volts it would drop back to 30.8 or so.  I assumed this was a sign of breaking down the sulfation and internal resistance dropping as well as the batteries taking more charge and improving. 

The cells that were low on specific gravity seemed to be improving.  I held it at near 31 volts for a couple hours of equalization.  I don't do it often enough as I was wondering about the inverters but from some reading I have done I think they are OK.  I am going to make knife switches to isolate the sets of batteries for desulfation and equalization purposes also.

After equalization and with a load, the old batteries were at 24.6 volts.  The new bank was at 24.8 volts.  I assumed that was good enough - I hooked them together and there was only a very light spark, indicating nearly the same voltage - no heating of the buss bars at all.  I am running the old banks as 3 groups of 4 and the new ones as 2 groups of 4 - all are connected to both inverters.  I will monitor closely and see how they do.

I have been getting great float time since I built the tracker - near none before, so I think things should continue to improve. :)
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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glenn kangiser

Here is a pix of the cells in the Trojans showing the sulfation and one fairly good cell is visible where you can see the plates.  Look how nearly all cells except one are covered with sulfation.  No telling how they are down inside between the plate separators.



I went to check the tracker at 8 AM this morning and it had already rotated to the morning sun.  Power was in production before I even went out to check on it.  Hooray. :) 

Power was already at 26 volts at 8 AM so I hooked the charger and desulfator on the Trojans to use the excess and possibly get them to start coming back.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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