Hey y'all, a little help...

[bigwillie22bulldog]

I have just graduated college, and I am now working back home in south Mississippi.  My grandfather has over 100 acres, and I was wanting to build a log cabin or some sort of cabin on the other side of the lake.  Due to Hurricane Katrina, we have an unlimited supply of pine trees, along with some oak and poplar.  We have also purchased a portable mill and are cutting our on boards as we speak.  I have ordered several log cabin building books.  I guess my questions are; is it possible for me to build a 1000-1500 sq. foot log cabin with 1 or 2 people helping me on the weekends.  It is a good bit away from our power source and would need a septic tank.  How much would having my own lumber save me.  Does anyone have an estimate on how much it would cost?  Any information would be greatly appreciated.  With my pop being 85, the loss of MANY of our trees due to Katrina, and me being back home and able to work the land and prepare a deer camp, I would love to be able to accomplish this.  Thank yall so much for any information that will help me get started.

[bigwillie22bulldog]

 

[glenn-k]

Gosh, Bigwillie -just graduated from college and such grammar - I am appalled.

I don't think we'll get on your case too bad about it - I'm the only one here who always uses proper grammar and that's just so no one will figure out that I am totally uneducated. :-/  Yeah-right as Jonesy says.

Sounds like you have a good start - is your sawmill a band saw?  Lumber if in a code area is usually required to be stamped and graded- I have heard of variances being allowed locally - big business needs their cut of your paycheck.  Hopefully this will not affect you.

There is a log home site you should at least read over if you are going that direction.  I make all my own lumber and just do as I please- If it comes to a fight it comes to a fight-- I'm studied up on it.

http://www.loghomebuilders.org/  This guy thinks he is the best log home builder in the world and he seems to make sense to me.  You may want to go with something easier like one of John's plans if you are just getting started.  If you can build with your own lumber and trees -things can get reasonably cheap - hard to nail down a price unless you just set down with a spreadsheet and do it.

[Chuck_Surette]

 I guess my questions are; is it possible for me to build a 1000-1500 sq. foot log cabin with 1 or 2 people helping me on the weekends.

These people did it - in FL.

http://www.afn.org/~afn33887/

[Chuck_Surette]

These guys in Alaska:

http://www.afn.org/~afn33887/

Also, if you can - check out Dick Preonneke "Alone in the wilderness" on PBS.  

It's usually on during pledge drives.

http://www.dickproenneke.com/DickProenneke.html

[Jimmy_Cason]

This is one of my favorites

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles/ainsworth27.html

In what part of Mississppi are you planning on building your cabin?
Anywhere near Stone county?

[bigwillie22bulldog]

Whats bad is  the degree i just got is my 2nd...i just dont pay attention on this informal talk, and i never read it before posting.

I appreciate the help.  Our neighbor, that helps my pop take care of the land, bought the mill. It has a trailor hitch on it as well.  Ive just seen it from a distance, so i dont know the details.  From what i could see he would put a 20 ft. log or so on this surface, lock it into place, look on the sides and adjust measurements, and just push the saw throuh the wood for a perfect piece of lumber.  It is a big gas powered slide with what i would think is a band saw.  He is cleaning off the land and cutting my pop some lumber, and in return, pop is lettin him cut as much as he wants and do with it what he pleases.  

[spinnm]

Actually, I'd think that you'd have an easier time than most DIYing it on the weekends.  One of the hardest things is oxing 4x8 sheets of whatever with 1-2 people.

You'll just build it the old way.  Lumber for wall and roof sheathing...or log walls.. your choice.  Site built trusses...or you could do exposed timber trusses for a look.  "New" hot look is just horizontal boards for interior finished walls....not even T&G.  Check out Sarah Susanka's newest book,  Inside the Not So Big House.

If you figure that 1/3 is foundation and another 1/3 is getting it dried in.....and you have what sounds like an unlimited supply of free lumber, I'm thinking that you can do this waaayyy cheap if you've a mind to.  Maybe even make your own doors if you have the inclination.

[glenn-k]

Hey, Bigwillie, if you ever want to correct or change a posting just hit the modify button - you can change it and resave it.

Logs cut into boards without edging or edged one side only makes a pretty nice clapboard siding - wavy edge.

Shelley, I guess that straight boards being in now puts me right in style.

[spinnm]

Absolutely Glenn,

The forefront of cool.  Sweartogawd in the newest book she went into great detail about how this archie achieved a fla cracker look in his new house.  It does look good. Slightly whitewashed to avoid the birdhouse feel.  They were talking about how he'd used the cheapest thing #2 Southern Yellow Pine right over the studs.

They look to be about 1x8s or there about....maybe 1x10s....relatively knot free.  The cheapest thing?  Maybe in the SE, but not on my planet. :-/

[benevolance]

Well Big Willie

If you wanted to sell me a spot on the land by the lake I would build your cabin for you...My wife is driving me nuts for a spot on the water close to South Carolina!

As for pricing....The cost of the logs is the least expensive thing about the house/cabin.

You can really trim the costs if you take a year or two to scrounge windows and doors from the classifieds and used building material stores...Auctions estate sales... things like that.

As far as the well goes and the septic...It depends a lot on what you can get away with where you live regarding building codes...The other big thing is what are you prepared to do (best sean connery voice)..I have been part of weptic tank installations where the building inspector was never notified....

I would strongly suggest you read up on the code where you live...Then look at what you can get away with without risking jail time. Do not be afraid to push the envelope and if codes are relaxed and you have access to a backhoe and learn the basics of  a septic system ...I would not hesitate to have someone help with the design of the system and do it yourself...If you do a pretty good job the county will not get too pissy about it...As long as it passes when they come test it with radioactive dye. (in my experience)

Not that hard to put a well in if you have a backhoe....

Roofing shingles, windows, septic, doors...These are the things that will cost the most...Cement crocks for the well...Piping... it will add up quick.

Being able to take a huge amount of time and scrounge materials that are used  or free will help tremendously

I read once that you should plan the building of your home a couple years ahead of time and spend that time scrounging materials and planning out what you are going to do....So when you do build the house you have everything prepared.

If you want advice on how to deal with inspectors...Be nice to Glen...I am sure the guy could write a book on civil disobedience!

-Peter

[glenn-k]

A well with a backhoe in Mississippi, could be a possibility - but then again that could be a shallow groundwater area and you may want the help of a good inspector - there are admittedly some, to help keep you from drinking your own effluent.  I always keep my code legal separations for safety when doing my own stuff and get permits and inspections for my customers.

Disobediance - That would be civil as opposed to criminal---all in the pursuit of happiness and providing shelter for my family.  Let's see --- public servant=servant of the public -- so public = master - therefore master = someone who is not a public servant = me   Is there a mistake in my calculations anywhere? :-/  Regretfully [smiley=wink.gif] I had to loudly remind a clerk in the building department of that fact a week or two ago- but I did get my point across, and did get to actually ask the inspector the question I had for him.

Actually I try to deal with inspectors the way they deal with me on permitted jobs - if they are nice - helpful - reasonable, I treat them likewise then, I milk them for all the information their good public servant capacity will allow them to give.  Generally we get along just fine and educate each other as much as possible usually always resulting in completion of the project in a manner that is agreeable to us both.  If you read and try to understand the applicable rules of the code it helps a lot.  Unfortunately it is really pricey - most people won't want to buy a copy just for one house.  This is where some of the books John has -Such as Code Check come in handy - listed here.

http://www.countryplans.com/books.html

For myself personally, I prefer to go with my rights - but there is a lot to study even if you want to try to insist on the rights the founding fathers of our country meant for us to have -- then there are no guarantees.  One thing is sure -- if you don't know about them, they can't help you.

[benevolance]

Glen

Okay let me rephrase....A backhoe can net you a well if you plan correctly. We have put in wells where the ground water is not ideal...But we improvised... Dug as deep as we could.... dig down 15-20 feet depending on the size of the hoe...drive the backhoe down into the area you have dug off that is 15 feet deep and dig down another 15+ feet...If all goes well you are 35 feet deep

Place in cement crocks backfill them with stone and sand..And if you build the well close by to the cabin you can engineer a system where the rainwater off the roof will  be directed towards the well and that should go a long ways towards allowing your water needs to be fufilled. If there is a lake nearby the water table should not be that low!

One simple rule of thumb is that Manure runs down hill just like water...So try to have the well above the septic making it impossible for the run off from the septic system to ever reach the water you might want to drink.

And when you start thinking like this you have to have a topography map of the plot plan so you can see if the lay of the land makes this easy or not.

In most cases a little extra planning and thought will save you time and money.

Common sense can win out...

And regarding the inspectors...If you can build to code or close to code...By all means do it. I have a lot of respect for some of the building codes.....A lot of them are geared towards safety, and structural strength.

The ones I have real issues with for example are ones that require stamped and approved lumber...This is a total crock of Shi* and a ploy to get tax dollars out of you!

you can cut your own logs and saw them....or you can sell them to the mill and pay income tax  on that sale...Then buy your logs back from the mill sawed and pay taxes on them yet again..So the government makes off you at both ends.

When it comes to fire safety and structural safety I am a big believer in building safe and trying to follow the codes. For everything else they can kiss my...Well you know where I am going with this.

-Peter

[glenn-k]

My well is 675 feet deep with 630 of it being through solid rock- others around here vary from 100 to 1200.  I get 1 gallon per minute.  Some get none.  In the valley wells are usually 120 to 400 feet deep - average about 250 feet.  Lots of water there but getting a bit deeper each year.  Some day there will not be enough to go around - they may have to start conservation seriously - let the freeway greenery die - it's a desert -maybe it should look like one. :-/

I know of a few places where a dug well could still work - not many.

Septic and wells are required to be separated horizontally and vertically -Daddymem posted some good information on that - 100' to leach lines 150' to a dug cesspool around here and profile holes or perc tests are required to be sure your effluent doesn't get into the active stream of the ground water and end up in your drinking water before the soil bacteria has had a chance to work it's magic on it making it something that is again  safe.

There are good free study courses posted under the Engineered Septic thread.  A good place to learn the why's.

I can see the lumber stamping requirement in buildings contractor built for others, but they are not in the same situation as the owner-builder who is making a home for himself.

[benevolance]

Glen

Yes we both Agree that California has no real business growing half of America's food and housing 30 million people.

Not unless we are prepared as a people to get serious about de-salinization, and conservation...There just is a very, very limited amount of water that they can channel to California via the colorado River.

If they stopped spending trillions of dollars on Making more powerful nukes and spent that money on a water infrastructure that would allow California to maintain it's water table and increase it's farm production...I would agree that long term use of the land in Places like Bakersfield for Farming make a lot of sense...

Otherwise as you said...It is desert...And it will become pointless to think otherwise.

One thing I think is really, really messed up.... take hay crops for example...In New England the growing season only allows 2 cuts of hay per growing season....In California if you have the water you can easily get 6-7 cuts of hay...So the crop yield is easily 3 times of that compared to most of the country.

It is stupid not to make massive water allocation projects a priority.

There is abundant useless vacant desertland that is begging for a few drops of water in California..Providing the much needed water almost overnight turns it into a Eden like garden where you can grow anything.

I might have been way off base before when I said that half of the food in America is grown in California...But I firmly believe it is truly possible if they wanted to spend the time and energy in building a workable and sustainable irrigation system that would double the amount of water for irrigation and replenish the water table in California

Other than Massive De-salinization....Canada is the Key...There is so much water just sitting around out west in Canada...They need to start building pipelines and irrigation channels...Sign agreements and just start pumping in gadzillions of gallons...

Conservation is a pretty important step as well.

I personally think it would be cool to tunnel from Death Valley to the ocean and to flood the valley with salt water and then set up irrigation and desalinization  facilities from there. Pretty cool way to get a massive amount of water hundreds of miles inland to the Desert!

So much free land and a powerful sun shining...Advances in Solar power ..Means abundant cheap energy to pump water into the desert to grow enough food for half the damned world...Surely there is enough sun shining down that they could re-plenish the water table or at least maintain it where it is at now.

I remember bodies of water in California when I was a kid that were vibrant...But now they are dying and gaining in salinity because irrigation demands strip them of much needed volume....And because of this salinity life is dying in the bodies of water.

Northern California used to be a paradise...Now it is barren of much of the natural beauty and water related resources.

Something needs to be done.

End of rant....Sigh
-Peter

[tjm73]

I personally think it would be cool to tunnel from Death Valley to the ocean and to flood the valley with salt water and then set up irrigation and desalinization  facilities from there. Pretty cool way to get a massive amount of water hundreds of miles inland to the Desert!

So much free land and a powerful sun shining...Advances in Solar power ..Means abundant cheap energy to pump water into the desert to grow enough food for half the damned world...Surely there is enough sun shining down that they could re-plenish the water table or at least maintain it where it is at now.

I remember bodies of water in California when I was a kid that were vibrant...But now they are dying and gaining in salinity because irrigation demands strip them of much needed volume....And because of this salinity life is dying in the bodies of water.

Northern California used to be a paradise...Now it is barren of much of the natural beauty and water related resources.

Something needs to be done.

End of rant....Sigh
-Peter

Silly Peter..... that might ruin the habitat of the one tailed, hook clawed, spotted, striped, two eared, fuzzy nippled rattle lizard.....  Nevermind the massive ammount of good it would do the rest of the country and possibly the world.

[harry51]

A major realignment of priorities is going to have to take place before the water question in California will be resolved. Some issues are seen as North vs. South, others are urban vs. rural, and yet others are human vs. fish and animal. Unfortunately, very often the "rights" of fish and animals are asserted by folks whose agenda really doesn't necessarily include the best interests of fish and animals. Everything is politicized; lots of folks see nothing wrong with using the force of government to take from their neighbor what they can't get from him by voluntary exchange.

Look around in the grocery store. Beef from Argentina, produce from Chile. At the same time, ag land in California is declared "habitat" and banned from production because a kit fox or a kangaroo rat is sighted in the area, and ag water from NorCal is sent south to fill L.A. swimming pools by judicial decree.  Could there be a policy in place somewhere designed to discourage Ca. agriculture, and U.S. self-sufficiency, and promote global interdependence?  Conspiracy theory? Who, me? Whoa, look out for that black 'copter! What's that lettering on the side? New World Order?  Can't be!

At risk of restating the obvious, we all have to eat. Our society is based on division of labor and specialization, and very few are able or inclined to grow their own food.  Are golf courses and swimming pools, or for that matter, further population growth, in SoCal more important than food production in NorCal?  Let's remember to ask around when the U.S. becomes unpopular in South America sometime down the line. What was that receipe for acorn mush? Do you fry grasshoppers or bake 'em?

At a time when farmers are often short of irrigation water, a move is officially afoot to drain the Hetch Hetchy reservoir, which is the water source for San Francisco, and rehabilitate the currently flooded Little Yosemite valley for tourism. Where will they get water for the City? From Lake McClure or Don Pedro, both of which are now used for ag water storage, and many years don't accumulate enough water to properly serve the valley farms, much less SF too! Does tearing out a perfectly useful dam and water system in the name of tourism make about as much sense as jumping out of a perfectly good airplane, or am I missing something?  

Enough for now!

                                            <30>

[glenn-k]

That was a beauty, Harry.  

What do you say we run up the hill and throw a cork in that aquaduct.

Hey, Big Willie - that mill sounds similar to mine - should make you a lot of good lumber.

[Daddymem]

How about those chainsaw mills, any good?

[bayviewps]

Bigwillie

  I advise that you start out smaller. . . Maybe build a shed or workshop first.  Then see if you would want to take on such a large project.  See if you have the "character" for it.

  I see to many projects partially finished because:
  -   "It was taking longer than expected",
  -   "I ran out of money",
  -   "I lacked the necessary skills",
  -   "I didn't receive the help I thought I would", (Don't expect friends and family to work every weekend without some sort of repayment.  They'll tire of it quickly.)
  -   "I'll get to it later",
  -   "I ran out of beer",
  -   OR . . .  !!!  (Mix and match the above or add some others.)

  In and near my neighborhood:

  There is a pole garage, framed and with the trusses up that has been sitting for over a year.  It just needs metal siding and roof to finish.  He actually has his vehicles parked "inside" on the concrete slab.  "Ran out of money and then interest"  He lost his high paying job and is now driving truck.    

  A room addition that needs siding.  Its being used as is.  "I'll get to it later."

  A home with a detached garage partially built.  Wind has torn felt off of the garage walls/roof and the plywood is buckling.   Scrap lumber laying everywhere.  Actually a hazard.

  A 1800 - 2000 sq ft house needing brick and interior finishing.  "Couple divorced."

  I could go on and on.

 My property is in a restricted but unincorporated subdivison with 1 acre lots in Texas.  Some are vacation and weekender homes.  Building permits not necessary.  But homes should be constructed in a "quality manner".  Homes sell for $90,000 - $300,000.  The $300,000 dollar home has been for sale for over two years.  Beautiful 3000 sq ft two story log home with custom swimming pool on three lots.  Wonder why it isn't selling? !!!
 
  There should have been a "completion date" in the subdivision charter.  Exterior construction shouldn't take longer than six months . . .  Property should be left in a appealing and safe manner . . .
Etc . . .

  A neighbor stopped by once, when I was working.  "Let me know if you need some help" he said.  His is one of the uncompleted projects !!!  Another stopped by, full of bandages.  Fell off and then onto a ladder when cutting a tree branch.  Chainsaw glazing his leg.  Branch falling on top of him.

  I have a friend that got a group of helpers together to reroof his house with a BBQ and beer party.  Can you imagine a bunch of half drunk people on the roof.  No one got hurt but you should see that wavy shingle job.  ("Now, is it 10 or 12 nails per shingle? . . . Naw, just one in the middle.")  I don't mind lending a hand, but I passed on that one.

  For power you may want to purchase a generator.  Get at least a 7500 watt.  I have a 5000 watt but it couldn't run a compressor and a saw at the same time.  It would trip the breaker if the compressor would come on at the same time I was using the table saw.  What a pain.

  Building a log home is going to take team work.   Lifting, setting logs, etc.  Get helpers that can take orders.  Designate who is in charge.  Or you may get people with more than just "hurt feelings".

  Don't start your project expecting to earn as you build.  Projects have a tendency to sit because of lack of funds.

  Again,  start small, gather skills, get competent dependable help, have the necessary funds.

  Good Luck !!!

   - End of my ranting ;-)
 
 
         
   

[harry51]

I've seen the factory guys operate the Logosol chainsaw mill a couple of times at woodworking shows, and they get good looking lumber and pretty fast production. The second time I saw them, they were selling the (hardwood) lumber they were making.  It would be interesting to put a long straightedge and a pair of calipers on the boards and check for thickness uniformity, etc., and compare with the output of a band or circular saw style mill.

The mill itself is fairly simple and lightweight, and of course an industrial strength saw is needed to make it work right.  I felt the mill was pretty expensive for what was there, and, besides the mill, you need equipment to handle the logs and the boards you make, or lots of hands!

[glenn-k]

The Alaskan sawmills using a chainsaw do make boards. but are a lot of hard work and have a lot of waste (any chain as opposed to band) .  The kerf of a chainsaw is about 3/8 while a bandsaw is 1/8.  There is a ripping chain available for chainsaws that greatly improves the process of making boards with it.  Logosol has a thinner chain and bar available which makes cutting faster with less waste.  Logosol states that the bandsaw is twice as fast as the chainsaw.  I can make a 16' 1x12 in about 3 to 5 minutes with my bandsaw -estimated time.

Alaskan Sawmill



The bandsaw moves along fairly easily by you - chainsaw is drug along by you in the Alaskan.  The Logosol looks easier -carriage similar to a bandsaw.  Board quality is much more rustic with the chainsaw.   Band sawed boards can have a pretty decent finish with not too much sanding or planing.

The one Harry mentioned looks to be quite a bit above the Alaskan with an option for a bandsaw attachment.  Still if all you can get into the site is an Alaskan it could be a great help - initial cost is much lower.  Price of the Logosol appears to be similar to other brands of bandsaws.

Logosol Sawmill


Free online videos of Logosol

[jwv]

Hi BigWillie,



We have a cabin in Colorado http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1134837616 that when we bought it consisted of 4 log walls.  The DH and older son (14-15 at the time) went to CO for the better part of 2 summers and a little more to finish it off. So, it can be done.  Even tho the log walls were already up it is our understanding that the guy we bought from had done most of that with just one or 2 helpers.

Good luck to you. Our cabin seemed impossible at the time we started.

Judy

[benevolance]

a couple more points on the massive water needs for Western cities

Phoenix is in trouble as far as water goes....They are growing like mad and they do not have other sources for water other than the Colorado river...Which has dropped to record lows because there is too much demand on it from cities like Los Angeles and Phoenix plus all the irrigation demands.

Southern California only really has one option long term...That is Desalinization. There is abundant sea water and technology has improved to the point where it is relatively cheap to do it. They have perfected the process and simplified the costs over in the middle east.

San Fran, San Diego and Los Angeles all providing their own Water through de-salinization...Would go a long way towards easing the demands on the Colorado river and allow what water there is to be spared for irrigation and maintaining the water table.

I still really like the Death Valley tunnel idea...I thought of it when I was a kid...Why I thought of it I will never know. I think it would solve a lot of the water scarcity problems for the desert..Especially since it is ideally located if you wanted to funnel irrigation water to Bakersfield and Barstow... It is all really lowlands out that way...And pumping would not be extreme.

Looking at a map The total area of the below sea level is quite large...It would be 550 square miles! Pretty nice lake!

Just a pipe dream.

They are building 52% efficient solar panels in Kansas but we do not see them on the market....

What frustrates me is that the Bush administration has no problem drilling for oil in a protected arctic wilderness reserve..but they would not flood death valley or impliment legistlation to conserve water in California or accept that de-salinization is inevitable for california' water needs.

-Peter

[glenn-k]

We no longer own our National Parks to do that with, Peter.  They have been given to the world.

I heard of it a long time ago.  Here's one article -nothing special to me -- just one I found.

http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/new_world_order/Rockefeller_UN_National_Parks.html

Another

http://www.wealth4freedom.com/offlimits.html

Another

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15179

I'm not sure about the current status of this - these are fairly old articles - I'm  probably nearly as apathetic as the rest of the people in the US about this.